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GC8
9,501 posts
59 months
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It looks like its gone full circle, as the .223R M16/AR-15 started out as the .308W AR-10.
I suppose that this is more of a big bore M4 than an AR-10 though?
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TheEnd
12,077 posts
57 months
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A lot of it came from studies showing you didn't need the higher power, longer range weapons as most fighting was up to 300-400 metres.
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hidetheelephants
5,589 posts
62 months
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Ayahuasca
Original Poster
16,051 posts
148 months
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hidetheelephants said: Interesting, cheers.
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RobDickinson
15,224 posts
123 months
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Ayahuasca said: I believe this is an urban myth. The 5.56 round is designed to tumble, fragment and shred the enemy; very much designed too kill. I think a convention (geneva?) requires all batlfield weapons to be lethal up to their maximum range, at least as a possibility.
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slideways
2,590 posts
90 months
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I'm guessing that the round is the same as a gpmg, and as the sniper rifle is a specialist weapon and the gpmg is an area weapon the L129a1 fills the gap for a longer range single shot weapon for a section, But like always they probably haven't asked the blokes what they need or want and someone somewhere has got a contract to make another weapon which will prove to be full of bad design faults that they will spend the next 20 years putting right, although it does look like they have taken a lot of the designs from the m4 They should bin the Sa80, it's been a pile of s  t since it came out, and give the lads m4s or demarco's
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Zoobeef
1,306 posts
27 months
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slideways said: I'm guessing that the round is the same as a gpmg, and as the sniper rifle is a specialist weapon and the gpmg is an area weapon the L129a1 fills the gap for a longer range single shot weapon for a section, But like always they probably haven't asked the blokes what they need or want and someone somewhere has got a contract to make another weapon which will prove to be full of bad design faults that they will spend the next 20 years putting right, although it does look like they have taken a lot of the designs from the m4 They should bin the Sa80, it's been a pile of s t since it came out, and give the lads m4s or demarco's What's s t about it? I've carried it for 2 tours of afghan and a tour of Iraq and its been faultless.
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PHuzzy
1,278 posts
41 months
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hidetheelephants said: Thanks for that, good read. I think that we'll stick with what we've got at the minute though, only 2 years left in Afghanistan, the government will be reluctant to spend anymore than it absolutely has to in the next 8-10 years.
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ben_h100
991 posts
48 months
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Zoobeef said: What's s t about it? I've carried it for 2 tours of afghan and a tour of Iraq and its been faultless. Exactly. The A2 is a decent weapon. There are too many armchair warriors out there 
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dai1983
213 posts
18 months
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The worst thing about the sa80 is that its heavy and rusts so easily. Put a ugl on it and its not balanced very well, ive sometimes thought I'd rather use a ugl on its own. The new handguard for the sa80 with foregrip is a good idea executed badly.
The new sharpshooter is used one per section and not a replacement for the sa80 as far as I know. I'm not happy unless ive got the gpmg and at least 800 link, I love it! My idea of hell is the minimi!
Makes me chuckle when you see ANA with an rpg and 3 warheads for a personal weapon!
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slideways
2,590 posts
90 months
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Zoobeef said: slideways said: I'm guessing that the round is the same as a gpmg, and as the sniper rifle is a specialist weapon and the gpmg is an area weapon the L129a1 fills the gap for a longer range single shot weapon for a section, But like always they probably haven't asked the blokes what they need or want and someone somewhere has got a contract to make another weapon which will prove to be full of bad design faults that they will spend the next 20 years putting right, although it does look like they have taken a lot of the designs from the m4 They should bin the Sa80, it's been a pile of s t since it came out, and give the lads m4s or demarco's What's s t about it? I've carried it for 2 tours of afghan and a tour of Iraq and its been faultless. Ok maybe they have sorted all the faults it had but it's taken 20 years,
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Burnham
2,656 posts
128 months
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dai1983 said: Makes me chuckle when you see ANA with an rpg and 3 warheads for a personal weapon! That makes me feel uncomfortable just thinking about it! Maybe they just dont feel exposed by it. I feel vunerable leaving the house without my phone..f k being on a patrol with only an RPG!
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Papa Hotel
9,432 posts
51 months
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slideways said: Ok maybe they have sorted all the faults it had but it's taken 20 years, 26! The SA80 has its critics, and mostly fair enough. However, it is very accurate, has as near to no recoil as you'll get in an assault rifle and reliability problems have mostly been ironed out. I always felt it a reassuringly solid piece of kit, the big problem is the feeble rounds.
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Toni896
2,137 posts
95 months
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Give us the L85A2 chambered to a 6-6.5mm rd ...
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GC8
9,501 posts
59 months
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Toni896 said: Give us the L85A2 chambered to a 6-6.5mm rd ... Or even a 22-250.
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Tango13
2,602 posts
45 months
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hidetheelephants said: Thanks for that, a well written article, some of the armchair warriors on here would do well to read it. I had heard the SA80 started out as a larger caliber rifle but wasn't sure sure if i'd imagined it, that piece confirmed that I hadn't lost all my marbles.
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wst
1,063 posts
30 months
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As a leftie I'm not keen on the SA80 just because I don't want a big burned gash torn into my face (left-eyed as well as left-handed). Apart from that though, now most of the problems seem to be ironed out, I like it. 'cept for the inevitable ammunition issue. I've fired 7.62 a fair bit and I am pretty amazed that anyone did anything with that while in "Automatic" mode... it was bad enough on single shot (and it had the side-effect of me mis-calling misfires when I went back to .22 for the BSSRA season... "misfire... oh wait I just didn't feel it").
A few years ago I was reading in one of the gun magazines at my local shooting range (well, actually, it was at school) about 6.5mm and how it made a good inexpensive and light halfway-house between 5.56 and 7.62, so it's good to see it mentioned in that pdf article linked up above.
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Symbolica
8,926 posts
84 months
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telecat
6,223 posts
110 months
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Basically the Problems quoted had already been noted by the US Army when the M16/AR18 came into service. In Vietnam the inability of the 5.56mm round to penetrate Bush cover was a problem that was flagged up fairly early on. As was the unreliability of the M16/AR18, hence when the SA80 was designed around the AR18 it was never going to be as reliable as it should have been. The major flaws in the 5.56mm come from making assumptions as to what type of combat it would be deployed in mostly by the US DOD. The same assumptions that the MOD and our current Government keep making with regard to the sort of Army, Navy and Air force we have.
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Hoofy
47,851 posts
151 months
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PHuzzy said: Papa Hotel said: I was taught that you don't deploy lethal means unless you intend to kill. Good point, well made! The 5.56mm isn't a non lethal round though is it? So as long as you hit the target then there is going to be one of 2 outcomes, dead or incapacitated, either one will do. However, incapacitated will draw more enemy into your line of fire by helping the injured target. Effective? Very! Allowing you to rack up more points. I like it.
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