Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)
Discussion
rdjohn said:
The easiest way for Lewis to judge 2021 is to accept that he threw 25 easy championship points away at the Baku restart.
It should never have come down to who won the last race.
But it didIt should never have come down to who won the last race.
And what happened earlier in the season doesn’t justify or excuse the mistakes made by the FIA in AD.
He isn’t necessarily wrong. He isn’t saying the sole reason he lost was because of Baku. We know ultimately it came down to AD. Just how he would rationalise and put it out of his mind.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway.
Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway. Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
RB Will said:
He isn’t necessarily wrong. He isn’t saying the sole reason he lost was because of Baku. We know ultimately it came down to AD. Just how he would rationalise and put it out of his mind.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was st the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway.
Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
You could use the same argument for anyoneIf I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway. Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
Verstappen “lucked” into 2021 because of Belgium, Monza, Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi.
It’s who scored the most points. You don’t win titles because you deserve them. Hamilton scored the most points, if the rules were applied correctly.
RB Will said:
He isn’t necessarily wrong. He isn’t saying the sole reason he lost was because of Baku. We know ultimately it came down to AD. Just how he would rationalise and put it out of his mind.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was st the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway.
Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
I've said before that I think Verstappen would have been a worthy champion, had he won the title legitimately.If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway. Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
The situation is that they went through a long season, both had ups and downs and both made mistakes. Singling out the Baku button mishap is random and irrelevant. One could pick any of half a dozen incidents for either driver that would have resulted in a different outcome. They came to AD on equal points, that's all that's relevant.
paulguitar said:
RB Will said:
He isn’t necessarily wrong. He isn’t saying the sole reason he lost was because of Baku. We know ultimately it came down to AD. Just how he would rationalise and put it out of his mind.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was st the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway.
Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
I've said before that I think Verstappen would have been a worthy champion, had he won the title legitimately.If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway. Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
The situation is that they went through a long season, both had ups and downs and both made mistakes. Singling out the Baku button mishap is random and irrelevant. One could pick any of half a dozen incidents for either driver that would have resulted in a different outcome. They came to AD on equal points, that's all that's relevant.
rdjohn said:
The easiest way for Lewis to judge 2021 is to accept that he threw 25 easy championship points away at the Baku restart.
It should never have come down to who won the last race.
I also don’t think it is quite fair to describe it as you do.It should never have come down to who won the last race.
The Baku issue was cause by an inadvertent button press in the course of correcting oversteer. It wasn’t ’pressing the wrong button by mistake’ or ‘choosing to press the wrong button’. it was ‘the button is in a non-ideal place because when you are using the steering wheel it’s possible to accidentally trigger it’. So yes, it was an error, but an error of design. It was not an error in the shape of a conscious, but incorrect, course of action, rather just a ‘s
t happens’ issue. Edited by PlywoodPascal on Saturday 9th March 10:33
RB Will said:
He isn’t necessarily wrong. He isn’t saying the sole reason he lost was because of Baku. We know ultimately it came down to AD. Just how he would rationalise and put it out of his mind.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was st the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway.
Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
Not true here, you are trying to slip a falsehood in about the number and rate of engine failures.If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway. Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
PlywoodPascal said:
rdjohn said:
The easiest way for Lewis to judge 2021 is to accept that he threw 25 easy championship points away at the Baku restart.
It should never have come down to who won the last race.
I also don’t think it is quite fair to describe it as you do.It should never have come down to who won the last race.
The Baku issue was cause by an inadvertent button press in the course of correcting oversteer. It wasn’t ’pressing the wrong button by mistake’ or ‘choosing to press the wrong button’. it was ‘the button is in a non-ideal place because when you are using the steering wheel it’s possible to accidentally trigger it’. So yes, it was an error, but an error of design. It was not an error in the shape of a conscious, but incorrect, course of action, rather just a ‘s
t happens’ issue. Edited by PlywoodPascal on Saturday 9th March 10:33
But that doesn’t mean he should sit back and accept what happened in AD
Muzzer79 said:
Baku was Lewis’ fault.
But that doesn’t mean he should sit back and accept what happened in AD
We aren’t saying he should accept AD or that it didn’t matter, but maybe just for peace of mind / moving on from it instead focus on things that were under his control that he could have improved that year. But that doesn’t mean he should sit back and accept what happened in AD
PlywoodPascal said:
Not true here, you are trying to slip a falsehood in about the number and rate of engine failures.
In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
I’m not trying to do anything of the sort, I’m just repeating what others have often said on here. In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
He only had the one engine issue when points were on the table, which is why people say it. If he had others in practice or quali then it may have had an outcome on the championship but we will never know, Rosberg might have beat him in those races regardless.
RB Will said:
PlywoodPascal said:
Not true here, you are trying to slip a falsehood in about the number and rate of engine failures.
In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
I’m not trying to do anything of the sort, I’m just repeating what others have often said on here. In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
He only had the one engine issue when points were on the table, which is why people say it. If he had others in practice or quali then it may have had an outcome on the championship but we will never know, Rosberg might have beat him in those races regardless.
paulguitar said:
RB Will said:
He isn’t necessarily wrong. He isn’t saying the sole reason he lost was because of Baku. We know ultimately it came down to AD. Just how he would rationalise and put it out of his mind.
If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was st the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway.
Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
I've said before that I think Verstappen would have been a worthy champion, had he won the title legitimately.If I were Lewis too I’d be looking at the season as a whole and thinking ok fair enough it was s
t the way it happened but I didn’t really earn this one anyway. Like people like to say Rosberg lucked into his championship in 16 because Lewis had one engine failure, Lewis would have lucked into 21 because of Baku, Imola, Hungary, Britain.
The situation is that they went through a long season, both had ups and downs and both made mistakes. Singling out the Baku button mishap is random and irrelevant. One could pick any of half a dozen incidents for either driver that would have resulted in a different outcome. They came to AD on equal points, that's all that's relevant.
Had Max's misbehaviours been treated correctly during the year then Masi wouldn't have been in the position to be able to deliver the "correct" result for Liberty.
RB Will said:
PlywoodPascal said:
Not true here, you are trying to slip a falsehood in about the number and rate of engine failures.
In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
I’m not trying to do anything of the sort, I’m just repeating what others have often said on here. In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
He only had the one engine issue when points were on the table, which is why people say it. If he had others in practice or quali then it may have had an outcome on the championship but we will never know, Rosberg might have beat him in those races regardless.
PlywoodPascal said:
RB Will said:
PlywoodPascal said:
Not true here, you are trying to slip a falsehood in about the number and rate of engine failures.
In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
I’m not trying to do anything of the sort, I’m just repeating what others have often said on here. In 2016 Hamilton had 5 critical engine failures, out of 9 total for Mercedes engines, which powered 8 cars. The other 4 failures were 2 for Manor, 1 for Williams, 1 for force India.
He had more than 50% of the failures that happened across the season.
If the failures were random the distribution you would expect would be 1.1 per driver.,
So you can say he experienced five times poorer reliability than any other mercedes-powered driver, and 5 times poorer than would be expected based on the simple failure rate.
He only had the one engine issue when points were on the table, which is why people say it. If he had others in practice or quali then it may have had an outcome on the championship but we will never know, Rosberg might have beat him in those races regardless.
rdjohn said:
The easiest way for Lewis to judge 2021 is to accept that he threw 25 easy championship points away at the Baku restart.
It should never have come down to who won the last race.
That doesnt just make AD disappear does it? Literally every title that has been won / lost by a small margin of points you could say well if X didnt happen you would have still won.It should never have come down to who won the last race.
P1Fanatic said:
rdjohn said:
The easiest way for Lewis to judge 2021 is to accept that he threw 25 easy championship points away at the Baku restart.
It should never have come down to who won the last race.
That doesnt just make AD disappear does it? Literally every title that has been won / lost by a small margin of points you could say well if X didnt happen you would have still won.It should never have come down to who won the last race.
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