Christian Horner
Discussion
maz8062 said:
For example, even before it gets to a hearing the judge will look at the evidence and will tend to place weight on conciliation attempts, which RB have done by employing the KC and offering a generous settlement - all refused by the PA.
This is a somewhat ironic assertion, given yours (and others) insistence that we cannot deduce anything without facts and nobody knows if or what settlement has been proposed.And how is employing a KC conciliatory? All a KC does is investigate.
maz8062 said:
Unless the judge sees merit in pursuing the case with a likely outcome different to what has already been put forward, they won’t hear the case and will instead instruct counsel to sort it out and not waste the ET’s time.
This isn't correct either.A judge may hear the case and tell you promptly (in as many words) to go away and sort it out amongst yourselves - I've had that happen to me - but they won't refuse to hear it.
Forester1965 said:
Gazzab said:
‘Losing’ allows the winner to seek costs.
Not in the ET. There is a high bar for unreasonable behaviour where costs can be awarded but it's it's uncommon. The default position is each side bears their own costs.Muzzer79 said:
A judge may hear the case and tell you promptly (in as many words) to go away and sort it out amongst yourselves - I've had that happen to me - but they won't refuse to hear it.
Again, not in the ET. If there's no prospect of success (again, high bar) the claim can be struck out. If there's little chance of success, the ET can make a deposit order up to £1000 per claim.Gazzab said:
The ET formally asked if we wanted to seek costs from the person accusing my co / my team. Maybe I am misremembering - it was a long time ago.
You can seek costs if the claimant has acted unreasonably. Unreasonable isn't as simple as 'not how you'd like', though! Ordinarily the costs don't follow the winner in the ET as they would in many other types of civil claim.Forester1965 said:
Gazzab said:
The ET formally asked if we wanted to seek costs from the person accusing my co / my team. Maybe I am misremembering - it was a long time ago.
You can seek costs if the claimant has acted unreasonably. Unreasonable isn't as simple as 'not how you'd like', though! Ordinarily the costs don't follow the winner in the ET as they would in many other types of civil claim.Mad Maximus said:
DeejRC said:
Probably because the consequences of a PA w
king off her boss are irrelevant compared to control of a multi billion £ company.
You may not like it, you may consider some British laws have been broken, you may consider it unethical, you may consider it poor form, you may not like the wrath of a wronged wife, alas every single ethical, moral, legal and frankly social convention are sacrificial and irrelevant when it comes to being top of the pile in a multi £billion power play.
Such is life. Those wanting moral retribution will simply have to settled for seeing the RB soap opera play out. The rest of us will continue to watch the racing and hope the Sainz family takes the fight to the Dutch.
I’m v much a Merc & Donkey driving chap btw and I don’t drink RB.
That sounds like you want to live under a dictatorship. king off her boss are irrelevant compared to control of a multi billion £ company.You may not like it, you may consider some British laws have been broken, you may consider it unethical, you may consider it poor form, you may not like the wrath of a wronged wife, alas every single ethical, moral, legal and frankly social convention are sacrificial and irrelevant when it comes to being top of the pile in a multi £billion power play.
Such is life. Those wanting moral retribution will simply have to settled for seeing the RB soap opera play out. The rest of us will continue to watch the racing and hope the Sainz family takes the fight to the Dutch.
I’m v much a Merc & Donkey driving chap btw and I don’t drink RB.
All well and good until someone you love gets messed about with by a sleaze but it’s ok cus I’m a powerful man in charge of squillions!
Evercross said:
Byker28i said:
Jasandjules said:
maz8062 said:
RB also have the findings of a KC, the ET/ACAS will take that into account so it’s not clear what an ET will solve.
Tell me, do you think the ET would go "Oh my well if a KC produced a report that is the end of the matter, no need for us to look at all". I suspect a judge will be very, very interested in a simple question - why was Mr Horny not suspended given the nature of the allegations THEN why was she suspended ? BAnd what do you think ACAS do exactly? They are an arbitration service. They make no decisions, no findings etc.
I mean if we're allowed like Maz to make up scenarios
CH "I'm innocent sir"
RB "We'd like him to be innocent, here's your large cheque. Don't worry the report will never be made public"
1. The leaking of conversations purported to be between Horner and the PA
2. The suspension of the PA by Red Bull, citing (on the record) 'dishonesty'.
As I and others have said countless times - you don't make a public allegation of dishonesty at the early stages of a process unless you know you can back it up (or you are a complete bunch of fools, and bearing in mind this came from Red Bull and not Horner they are not going to be taking chances on a spurious counter-accusation).
Forester1965 said:
Notwithstanding her own disciplinary (she's currently suspended).
Indeed.And again - you keep assuming the leaked conversations were from the PA.
Whilst she seems to have very good reason for leaking them, as RB seem to be keen to brush it all under the rug, again there's no proof and more likely one of the anti Horner factions used it to their advantage in the internal power struggle.
We've heard nothing, ever, from the PA. She's said nothing, keeping her head down. We've not see her out strolling around with a trophy partner, posing for cameras
None of us know anything because RB are trying to let it all blow over. But those messages look terrible as do those who excuse Horny's behaviour. IMHO of course
Byker28i said:
Lets be honest it happens all the time, especially with NHS whistleblowers, cover up suspend and investigate the whistleblower rather than address the embarrassing allegations.
And again - you keep assuming the leaked conversations were from the PA.
Whilst she seems to have very good reason for leaking them, as RB seem to be keen to brush it all under the rug, again there's no proof and more likely one of the anti Horner factions used it to their advantage in the internal power struggle.
We've heard nothing, ever, from the PA. She's said nothing, keeping her head down. We've not see her out strolling around with a trophy partner, posing for cameras
None of us know anything because RB are trying to let it all blow over. But those messages look terrible as do those who excuse Horny's behaviour. IMHO of course
Absolutely correct BykerAnd again - you keep assuming the leaked conversations were from the PA.
Whilst she seems to have very good reason for leaking them, as RB seem to be keen to brush it all under the rug, again there's no proof and more likely one of the anti Horner factions used it to their advantage in the internal power struggle.
We've heard nothing, ever, from the PA. She's said nothing, keeping her head down. We've not see her out strolling around with a trophy partner, posing for cameras
None of us know anything because RB are trying to let it all blow over. But those messages look terrible as do those who excuse Horny's behaviour. IMHO of course
Byker28i said:
Lets be honest it happens all the time, especially with NHS whistleblowers, cover up suspend and investigate the whistleblower rather than address the embarrassing allegations.
And again - you keep assuming the leaked conversations were from the PA.
Whilst she seems to have very good reason for leaking them, as RB seem to be keen to brush it all under the rug, again there's no proof and more likely one of the anti Horner factions used it to their advantage in the internal power struggle.
We've heard nothing, ever, from the PA. She's said nothing, keeping her head down. We've not see her out strolling around with a trophy partner, posing for cameras
None of us know anything because RB are trying to let it all blow over. But those messages look terrible as do those who excuse Horny's behaviour. IMHO of course
The same person has spent years posting about an organisation doing all sorts of dodgy stuff, and then covering up their actions. Whereas in this case suddenly the process is trustworthy and RB’s own investigations are to be believed despite the owner making billions out of the possible deal and Horner being in charge of the team. He knows very much how much influence the top leader can have on decisions and legal processes in an organisation when they want to. Covering up information, selective use of lawyers into the other side’s case, deliberate leaks about the other side and so on. And again - you keep assuming the leaked conversations were from the PA.
Whilst she seems to have very good reason for leaking them, as RB seem to be keen to brush it all under the rug, again there's no proof and more likely one of the anti Horner factions used it to their advantage in the internal power struggle.
We've heard nothing, ever, from the PA. She's said nothing, keeping her head down. We've not see her out strolling around with a trophy partner, posing for cameras
None of us know anything because RB are trying to let it all blow over. But those messages look terrible as do those who excuse Horny's behaviour. IMHO of course
Put it this way, we’ve seen lots of questions about the texts, but where did the leaks about the whole Jos relationship/Austria opposing a deal/ dishonesty accusation etc come from? An unbiased source?
Edited by NRS on Friday 29th March 07:58
From The Independent.
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-...
Christian Horner’s accuser targets Red Bull return to work as she awaits appeal outcome.
Exclusive: The female complainant remains ‘in it for the long haul’ and is set to take her case to an employment tribunal should her appeal fail.
ETA: Apparently, there's more correspondence to be revealed.
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-...
Christian Horner’s accuser targets Red Bull return to work as she awaits appeal outcome.
Exclusive: The female complainant remains ‘in it for the long haul’ and is set to take her case to an employment tribunal should her appeal fail.
ETA: Apparently, there's more correspondence to be revealed.
Edited by Blib on Friday 29th March 08:03
Blib said:
From The Independent.
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-...
Christian Horner’s accuser targets Red Bull return to work as she awaits appeal outcome.
Exclusive: The female complainant remains ‘in it for the long haul’ and is set to take her case to an employment tribunal should her appeal fail.
ETA: Apparently, there's more correspondence to be revealed.
More puff journalism.https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-...
Christian Horner’s accuser targets Red Bull return to work as she awaits appeal outcome.
Exclusive: The female complainant remains ‘in it for the long haul’ and is set to take her case to an employment tribunal should her appeal fail.
ETA: Apparently, there's more correspondence to be revealed.
The independent said:
An industry source said...
OK! Right!The Independent article reads as if someone read The Guardian article and took it as being sourced from someone involved with the case rather than a random third party.
NRS said:
Put it this way, we’ve seen lots of questions about the texts, but where did the leaks about the whole Jos relationship/Austria opposing a deal/ dishonesty accusation etc come from? An unbiased source?
The dishonesty accusation was made publicly by Red Bull when the PA was suspended. This was even reported by the BBC.Edited by Evercross on Friday 29th March 11:56
Evercross said:
Blib said:
From The Independent.
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-...
Christian Horner’s accuser targets Red Bull return to work as she awaits appeal outcome.
Exclusive: The female complainant remains ‘in it for the long haul’ and is set to take her case to an employment tribunal should her appeal fail.
ETA: Apparently, there's more correspondence to be revealed.
More puff journalism.https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-...
Christian Horner’s accuser targets Red Bull return to work as she awaits appeal outcome.
Exclusive: The female complainant remains ‘in it for the long haul’ and is set to take her case to an employment tribunal should her appeal fail.
ETA: Apparently, there's more correspondence to be revealed.
The independent said:
An industry source said...
OK! Right!The Independent article reads as if someone read The Guardian article and took it as being sourced from someone involved with the case rather than a random third party.
NRS said:
Put it this way, we’ve seen lots of questions about the texts, but where did the leaks about the whole Jos relationship/Austria opposing a deal/ dishonesty accusation etc come from? An unbiased source?
The dishonesty accusation was made publicly by Red Bull when the PA was suspended. This was even reported by the BBC.Edited by Evercross on Friday 29th March 11:56
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