Where does Carlos go now?
Discussion
zsdom said:
I hope he does get another top seat & even better if it is at Audi
IMHO Ferrari have got rid of the wrong driver
Leclerc during karting was somewhat close to Verstappen, Sainz was average. IMHO Ferrari have got rid of the wrong driver
Leclerc won F2 at his first year, Sainz was defeated by Kyviat in GP3 and won the Renault 3.5 V6 championship because the grid was weak.
In terms of talent there is no discussion, but I do recognize that Sainz works very hard.
Edited by Kart16 on Monday 5th February 14:13
zsdom said:
IMHO Ferrari have got rid of the wrong driver
I agree. When CL went to Ferrari I thought it was too soon. He was making rookie mistakes.However a number of years later he’s still making them. I’ve always seen CS as the better drive, although he’s clearly treated as a no.2 driver.
Kart16 said:
Leclerc during karting was very close to Verstappen, Sainz was average.
Leclerc won F2 at his first year, Sainz was defeated by Kyviat in GP3 and won the Renault 3.5 V6 championship because the grid was weak.
In terms of talent there is no discussion, but I do recognize that Sainz works very hard.
Sainz has hit his peak when it matters most though, it could be argued Kvyat hit his peak before he got to F1. And look where they both are now... Sainz is a grand prix winner and for another year at least a Ferrari driver annoying to be heading up Audi's F1 project as it's lead driver. Over one lap he's not the fastest driver in F1 even he knows that, but over a race and over a season, he's a better bet than Leclerc to get a championship in the right car imo.Leclerc won F2 at his first year, Sainz was defeated by Kyviat in GP3 and won the Renault 3.5 V6 championship because the grid was weak.
In terms of talent there is no discussion, but I do recognize that Sainz works very hard.
Another project said:
Could he join Audi for 2025? Would they still be held to the same testing rules as everyone else? They could test and develop the 26 car all year
Audi aren't a new team; they're Sauber with a new name. Even as a new team they would be under the same restrictions as everyone else from the moment their entry was accepted.DanielSan said:
Sainz has hit his peak when it matters most though, it could be argued Kvyat hit his peak before he got to F1. And look where they both are now... Sainz is a grand prix winner and for another year at least a Ferrari driver annoying to be heading up Audi's F1 project as it's lead driver. Over one lap he's not the fastest driver in F1 even he knows that, but over a race and over a season, he's a better bet than Leclerc to get a championship in the right car imo.
How Sainz is better than Leclerc? Leclerc has 23 poles, Sainz just 5. Leclerc has 5 race wins , Sainz just 2. It is true that Leclerc made more mistakes, but that was because he was pushing the limit to compensate for Ferrari's lack of performance compared to Red Bull. If Ferrari once again has a car to fight at the front, Leclerc won't need to drive so much at the limit and will walk away from Sainz.
Kart16 said:
How Sainz is better than Leclerc? Leclerc has 23 poles, Sainz just 5. Leclerc has 5 race wins , Sainz just 2.
It is true that Leclerc made more mistakes, but that was because he was pushing the limit to compensate for Ferrari's lack of performance compared to Red Bull. If Ferrari once again has a car to fight at the front, Leclerc won't need to drive so much at the limit and will walk away from Sainz.
CS was also the only non-RB driver to win a race last year.It is true that Leclerc made more mistakes, but that was because he was pushing the limit to compensate for Ferrari's lack of performance compared to Red Bull. If Ferrari once again has a car to fight at the front, Leclerc won't need to drive so much at the limit and will walk away from Sainz.
MustangGT said:
Kart16 said:
How Sainz is better than Leclerc? Leclerc has 23 poles, Sainz just 5. Leclerc has 5 race wins , Sainz just 2.
It is true that Leclerc made more mistakes, but that was because he was pushing the limit to compensate for Ferrari's lack of performance compared to Red Bull. If Ferrari once again has a car to fight at the front, Leclerc won't need to drive so much at the limit and will walk away from Sainz.
CS was also the only non-RB driver to win a race last year.It is true that Leclerc made more mistakes, but that was because he was pushing the limit to compensate for Ferrari's lack of performance compared to Red Bull. If Ferrari once again has a car to fight at the front, Leclerc won't need to drive so much at the limit and will walk away from Sainz.
To clarify by fortunate I'm not saying that he didn't drive well, but if he had driven that well any other weekend he wouldn't have won.
Edited by Bluequay on Monday 5th February 14:02
Bluequay said:
Sainz consistently gets less out of the car than his team mate.
Statistically he's been very close to Leclerc across three years. He's typically been outqualified in the ratio 2:1, but that's against someone who most pundits say is the fastest current driver over a single lap. Where it matters, points scored on Sunday, they've been very even. 2022 was a bit of an outlier as he seemed to have a lot more retirements that year. So consistently very slightly slower on Saturday, but usually makes up for it on Sunday.Bluequay said:
To clarify by fortunate I'm not saying that he didn't drive well, but if he had driven that well any other weekend he wouldn't have won.
Just like every other driver on every weekend last year then. Maybe he was fortunate, but he was the one who who made the most of that fortune, on a weekend where it was up for anybody to beat the RBs.thegreenhell said:
Bluequay said:
Sainz consistently gets less out of the car than his team mate.
Statistically he's been very close to Leclerc across three years. He's typically been outqualified in the ratio 2:1, but that's against someone who most pundits say is the fastest current driver over a single lap. Where it matters, points scored on Sunday, they've been very even. 2022 was a bit of an outlier as he seemed to have a lot more retirements that year. So consistently very slightly slower on Saturday, but usually makes up for it on Sunday.Bluequay said:
To clarify by fortunate I'm not saying that he didn't drive well, but if he had driven that well any other weekend he wouldn't have won.
Just like every other driver on every weekend last year then. Maybe he was fortunate, but he was the one who who made the most of that fortune, on a weekend where it was up for anybody to beat the RBs.Ferrari have all the data from him and Leclerc and they've bet on Leclerc. I rate Sainz as being around the 8th best driver on the current grid, consistent but not great. Maybe he will do a Jenson and win a title but I seriously doubt it.
Alas, bye bye Bottas, hello Carlos. Has to be a shoe in for Audi. Zhou will stay because of Audi's Chinese market presence and having a Chinese driver can only improve that.
I hope Audi can invest enough in to Sauber to give Carlos a car to challenge, anyone else I would laugh at that prospect, but Audi always hit very hard when they arrive, like motorsport blitzkrieg.
I hope Audi can invest enough in to Sauber to give Carlos a car to challenge, anyone else I would laugh at that prospect, but Audi always hit very hard when they arrive, like motorsport blitzkrieg.
I think he's got a chance to go to Mercedes on a short contract and I think he should take it. 1+1 or a 2 year. If I were him I'd want to see something from the Audi F1 race team and powertrain operation rather than blindly jumping aboard. This is not a prediction but if he goes to Audi in Sauber in 2025 he could end up in an Alonso to Mclaren GP2 engine situation come 2026.
Sainz has grown in stature in Ferrari. He is not a WDC but he has some gravitas now. Joining Sauber in 2025 in the hope of top 10 performance in 2026/27 is not the move for a driver of his standing.
Sainz has grown in stature in Ferrari. He is not a WDC but he has some gravitas now. Joining Sauber in 2025 in the hope of top 10 performance in 2026/27 is not the move for a driver of his standing.
Bluequay said:
MustangGT said:
How about Carlos to Sauber/Audi and Valtteri back to Mercedes for a season until Andrea K A proves himself?
That is a more likely scenario than Carlos going to Mercedes. I just don't see them taking Ferrari's cast-offs after they've nicked Lewis. Not good optics!I've said it already but I think that swallowing their pride and taking Sainz is the sensible and best thing to do (assuming they don't want Alonso). To do anything else would just look like they've overthought it. Apart from Alonso, Sainz is the best available driver.
Edited by Hustle_ on Tuesday 6th February 11:59
Hustle_ said:
Don't see what's in it for either driver. Bottas loses his new-found balance and stability at Sauber and is dropped back into the Mercedes environment where he is unambiguously number two under Russell. Russell has already literally and metaphorically smacked Bottas across the face. Bottas will have flashbacks of being dismantled by Hamilton and strung along year-by-year, liable to be dropped again every winter. Sainz jumps into a historically underperforming Sauber team and spends a year or two barely point scoring. Unless you believe Bottas is better than Sainz it's the wrong way around.
I've said it already but I think that swallowing their pride and taking Sainz is the sensible and best thing to do (assuming they don't want Alonso). To do anything else would just look like they've overthought it. Apart from Alonso, Sainz is the best available driver.
What stability? he's out of contract at the end of the season and no guarantee he will be kept on much after that when Audi takeover. Mercedes will put their wonderkid in the car at some point so he fits nicely as a stopgap.I've said it already but I think that swallowing their pride and taking Sainz is the sensible and best thing to do (assuming they don't want Alonso). To do anything else would just look like they've overthought it. Apart from Alonso, Sainz is the best available driver.
Edited by Hustle_ on Tuesday 6th February 11:59
Bottas will also believe 100% he can beat Russell and he'd love the chance to prove it.
Bluequay said:
I was making the point that a single win is a dodgy metric when quantifying the quality of a driver. i.e the only non RB winner least year.
Ferrari have all the data from him and Leclerc and they've bet on Leclerc. I rate Sainz as being around the 8th best driver on the current grid, consistent but not great. Maybe he will do a Jenson and win a title but I seriously doubt it.
Somewhere between 4th-8th best. I'd only put Hamilton, Verstappen & Alonso as better all-round drivers. Others are faster over a single lap, but he's proved a handful against all his teammates across a season.Ferrari have all the data from him and Leclerc and they've bet on Leclerc. I rate Sainz as being around the 8th best driver on the current grid, consistent but not great. Maybe he will do a Jenson and win a title but I seriously doubt it.
If the Sauber looks better this year he ought to go there. We won't be hearing any announcements until the summer IMHO.
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