Official 2024 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2024 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 92
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
Not surprising, I would expect most rights owners looking to the future to be concentrating on those things. It's been fairly obvious since DTS was a big hit that F1 drama had a lot of appeal to younger and new viewers.
Do they include their own F1TV service in terms of dropping TV audiences? So far as I can tell looking at reddit activity (and on here to an extent), a lot of people are very happily viewing for a low price via that platform..
The point was that's the way Liberty are driving it. DTS is their purposeful attempt to bring in the new audience, rather than serendipity. The drivers being front and centre, the Instagram and so on. That's the play. The concept is the teams are franchises (the word is used explicitly in the presentations) and their asset value is driven by the scarcity of entries. This is why we won't see new teams coming in- it would be contrary to the business plan.Do they include their own F1TV service in terms of dropping TV audiences? So far as I can tell looking at reddit activity (and on here to an extent), a lot of people are very happily viewing for a low price via that platform..
In other words, F1 won't be coming back. All the things 'we' moan about on here as old farts aren't going to change back for the 'better'. Liberty are OK losing TV audience if it's replaced by a larger, younger interactive one, of fans who support a particular driver or team like they would a football club and the star player. They don't really care much about the people who're interested in the engineering or strategy because that's not the audience they're monetising. Which is why the cars will become more spec and less expensive to build and run. Profit.
paulguitar said:
Sandpit Steve said:
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
Hopefully, no one will bother then.Here’s Nico Rosberg and his father running their championship cars together for a demo at Monaco a couple of years ago. It took Mercedes FIVE HOURS, from getting the 2016 car off the truck to starting the engine.
Perhaps those that buy this era of F1 car second-hand, will put Judd V10s in them instead!
vaud said:
The issue is there is no "F1" - everyone has a different view for their favourite "era" - the reality is that each has their merits and there is a lot of rose tinted glasses...
Not quite sure that's true. Yes, there have always been changes in F1, but this is the first time its focus has changed as an entity, from a sport run at a profit to the rights holder and huge cost to the competitors, to one that is focused on profit for all the stakeholders. Only since Liberty has that really become an item. To make that function the 'sport' has had to change tack and put commercial considerations at the front of everything. That's why we're moving to cheaper engines, more and more spec parts, street races and so one. It's a fundamental change in the purpose of the sport rathe than an incremental change of epoch.I like all of F1, from inception through the ages and changes to cars, the infighting, the obvious corruption, all of it. It all made the thing intriguing because it was a group of people to the point of irrationality doing anything possible to win a WDC using whatever money they could beg borrow and steal. Except now, I'm the product. The racing has gone to s
t, the people running the sport are making a fortune and don't care about winning like they used to. It's all about money. And that's not for me.TheDeuce said:
PhilAsia said:
Bo_apex said:
TheDeuce said:
paulguitar said:
TheDeuce said:
paulguitar said:
TheDeuce said:
So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.
I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.
I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.
I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.
The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though
The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.
https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/vinyl-sales-...
The lyrics (subtitled on the vid) are quite poignantly interchangeable to the subject at hand.
Thank you for the post.
So much music.
So little time.
Derek Smith said:
Thanks for that.
Still ugly though.
Fittipaldi drove one of the most stunning Lotus F1 cars, and came up with that.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Still ugly though.
Fittipaldi drove one of the most stunning Lotus F1 cars, and came up with that.
I worked on quite a few of the cars in your picture, the F5A won the FIA championship a few years after that photo, my old workmates ran it and i gave some input to sort the handling and brakes. It's what I do.
Sandpit Steve said:
Massive kudos to all the guys and gals who keep these old F1 cars running, must be ruinously expensive every time they fire up or do a lap. Most of those old engines could barely survive a couple of heat cycles before needing a rebuild, and half of them couldn’t even go the GP distance back in period.
Chapeau
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
A DFV is about £125k, rebuilds are circa £15k if nothing is broken. They need a rebuild every 1000 miles, they generally need 2 rebuilds per season of historic F1 if doing all the rounds.Chapeau
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
Gearbox is a season between full rebuild, depending on driver you may need new dog rings each event. Good drivers they last all year. Doing it properly you crack test the gears after every event.
Tyres is probably the biggest consumable cost, £4kish an event.
There is a lot of hours labour, all the load bearing parts have to be crack tested every 2 years by regulation, i would do it every year, if any damage is done in a contact then everything in that area is crack tested at that moment.
They are not stupid expensive to run in many respects as you can make anything, running a modern GT you have to buy direct from the manufacturer at their silly prices.
732NM said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Massive kudos to all the guys and gals who keep these old F1 cars running, must be ruinously expensive every time they fire up or do a lap. Most of those old engines could barely survive a couple of heat cycles before needing a rebuild, and half of them couldn’t even go the GP distance back in period.
Chapeau
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
A DFV is about £125k, rebuilds are circa £15k if nothing is broken. They need a rebuild every 1000 miles, they generally need 2 rebuilds per season of historic F1 if doing all the rounds.Chapeau
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
Gearbox is a season between full rebuild, depending on driver you may need new dog rings each event. Good drivers they last all year. Doing it properly you crack test the gears after every event.
Tyres is probably the biggest consumable cost, £4kish an event.
There is a lot of hours labour, all the load bearing parts have to be crack tested every 2 years by regulation, i would do it every year, if any damage is done in a contact then everything in that area is crack tested at that moment.
They are not stupid expensive to run in many respects as you can make anything, running a modern GT you have to buy direct from the manufacturer at their silly prices.
Massive congratulations, to those that do keep the history running.
Thats for racing the car. Demo events the car hardly gets warmed up.
Restoring a car from a museum piece to a race ready car is where the large cost can be, as most of the original car needs replacing with new components.
You can be into casting new uprights, gearbox casings, making all new suspension components, wheels, wings, bodywork, often a strip down to the last rivet and rebuild of the chassis etc.
Restoring a car from a museum piece to a race ready car is where the large cost can be, as most of the original car needs replacing with new components.
You can be into casting new uprights, gearbox casings, making all new suspension components, wheels, wings, bodywork, often a strip down to the last rivet and rebuild of the chassis etc.
Edited by 732NM on Wednesday 24th April 18:30
Forester1965 said:
TheDeuce said:
Not surprising, I would expect most rights owners looking to the future to be concentrating on those things. It's been fairly obvious since DTS was a big hit that F1 drama had a lot of appeal to younger and new viewers.
Do they include their own F1TV service in terms of dropping TV audiences? So far as I can tell looking at reddit activity (and on here to an extent), a lot of people are very happily viewing for a low price via that platform..
The point was that's the way Liberty are driving it. DTS is their purposeful attempt to bring in the new audience, rather than serendipity. The drivers being front and centre, the Instagram and so on. That's the play. The concept is the teams are franchises (the word is used explicitly in the presentations) and their asset value is driven by the scarcity of entries. This is why we won't see new teams coming in- it would be contrary to the business plan.Do they include their own F1TV service in terms of dropping TV audiences? So far as I can tell looking at reddit activity (and on here to an extent), a lot of people are very happily viewing for a low price via that platform..
In other words, F1 won't be coming back. All the things 'we' moan about on here as old farts aren't going to change back for the 'better'. Liberty are OK losing TV audience if it's replaced by a larger, younger interactive one, of fans who support a particular driver or team like they would a football club and the star player. They don't really care much about the people who're interested in the engineering or strategy because that's not the audience they're monetising. Which is why the cars will become more spec and less expensive to build and run. Profit.
If I was responsible for the investment liberty are, I'd have to do pretty much what they're doing - even if it pissed me off as a fan of F1 as it once was.
That time has gone. If we stop enjoying it once too many changes have been made, we should go too.
You're right, I am annoyed. Mainly because F1 was my favourite sport and now it's gone, as far as I'm concerned. I've watched it a bit out of habit this past couple of years, but I resent it.
Of course it belongs to Liberty and they're, excuse the pun, at liberty to do what they want with it. What's commercially attractive isn't necessarily what made F1 attractive though, for me. There isn't an equivalent motorsport to move to.
AD2021 felt like a watershed to me. Not because I'm partisan (yes, I wanted Hamilton to win and felt he'd done everything he needed to to achieve it). Because it was just wrong. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton had been handed that race, it'd have been tainted and I'd never have counted it in my head as a win. Yet the sport whitewashed the whole thing. The tribal 'football style' fans (of either persuasion) can't discuss it civilly.
F1 fans used to be united by the fact they liked motorsport, loved F1, and above all they could debate a junk pitstop from 15 years ago without falling out. A world now from the past.
Of course it belongs to Liberty and they're, excuse the pun, at liberty to do what they want with it. What's commercially attractive isn't necessarily what made F1 attractive though, for me. There isn't an equivalent motorsport to move to.
AD2021 felt like a watershed to me. Not because I'm partisan (yes, I wanted Hamilton to win and felt he'd done everything he needed to to achieve it). Because it was just wrong. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton had been handed that race, it'd have been tainted and I'd never have counted it in my head as a win. Yet the sport whitewashed the whole thing. The tribal 'football style' fans (of either persuasion) can't discuss it civilly.
F1 fans used to be united by the fact they liked motorsport, loved F1, and above all they could debate a junk pitstop from 15 years ago without falling out. A world now from the past.
Forester1965 said:
You're right, I am annoyed. Mainly because F1 was my favourite sport and now it's gone, as far as I'm concerned. I've watched it a bit out of habit this past couple of years, but I resent it.
Of course it belongs to Liberty and they're, excuse the pun, at liberty to do what they want with it. What's commercially attractive isn't necessarily what made F1 attractive though, for me. There isn't an equivalent motorsport to move to.
AD2021 felt like a watershed to me. Not because I'm partisan (yes, I wanted Hamilton to win and felt he'd done everything he needed to to achieve it). Because it was just wrong. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton had been handed that race, it'd have been tainted and I'd never have counted it in my head as a win. Yet the sport whitewashed the whole thing. The tribal 'football style' fans (of either persuasion) can't discuss it civilly.
F1 fans used to be united by the fact they liked motorsport, loved F1, and above all they could debate a junk pitstop from 15 years ago without falling out. A world now from the past.
Once again, I agree. Of course it belongs to Liberty and they're, excuse the pun, at liberty to do what they want with it. What's commercially attractive isn't necessarily what made F1 attractive though, for me. There isn't an equivalent motorsport to move to.
AD2021 felt like a watershed to me. Not because I'm partisan (yes, I wanted Hamilton to win and felt he'd done everything he needed to to achieve it). Because it was just wrong. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton had been handed that race, it'd have been tainted and I'd never have counted it in my head as a win. Yet the sport whitewashed the whole thing. The tribal 'football style' fans (of either persuasion) can't discuss it civilly.
F1 fans used to be united by the fact they liked motorsport, loved F1, and above all they could debate a junk pitstop from 15 years ago without falling out. A world now from the past.
I also agree that if Lewis had win 2021, it would have still been tainted - the entire season was plagued with BS penalties and blind eyes for the sake of artificially creating a neck and neck finale. It would always have been tainted whoever won it.
Neither of us can get back the F1 that we were drawn to originally. Staying power and mild interest just about keeps me hooked.
Also to be honest this forum. We're all able to lament what's going on as a group!! Perhaps that's why this is the first race thread in years that has ended with us discussing F1 constructively, not bickering? Finally the majority are on the same page.. all equally dissolutioned and a bit sad.
jazzybees said:
TheDeuce said:
PhilAsia said:
Bo_apex said:
TheDeuce said:
paulguitar said:
TheDeuce said:
paulguitar said:
TheDeuce said:
So much has changed in a relatively short space of time, and not a lot of it appeals to me, despite my understanding of why many of the changes have been made.
I think Brundle saying hybrid engines have been the 'worst decision ever made' in the sport is remarkable. He's partly there to 'big up' F1 and if he's openly coming out with stuff like that perhaps they are starting to twig that all is not well.I doubt very much his views will do anything to change the course they take in order to best protect and grow their multi billion dollar asset.
I think those of us who lament the loss of the glorious viscerally mindblowing cars we used to have will have to accept that we don't matter to the sport's owners who now have a fan base of people weaned on 'Drive to Survive' and know nothing other than the current underwhelming ponderous farty sounding vehicles.
I'm curious as to whether anyone might try some sort of offshoot though. There are probably enough people who are interested in seeing a championship with naturally aspirated V10s or V12s. Look how popular the Goodwood FOS is. It's lovely going there and seeing kids (and adults) literally open-mouthed when a 'proper' F1 car is let loose up the hill.
The problem is, to establish such a series would need huge investment to keep the show on the road for a few years whilst, hopefully, enough sponsors come on board to fund the series and teams moving forwards. Where on earth do you find big money sponsors these days that want to attach a throwback to screaming petrol engines to their brands though
The will and interest is definitely there, people would watch too I believe. But the money... I can't see how that can be found.
https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/vinyl-sales-...
The lyrics (subtitled on the vid) are quite poignantly interchangeable to the subject at hand.
Thank you for the post.
So much music.
So little time.
732NM said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Massive kudos to all the guys and gals who keep these old F1 cars running, must be ruinously expensive every time they fire up or do a lap. Most of those old engines could barely survive a couple of heat cycles before needing a rebuild, and half of them couldn’t even go the GP distance back in period.
Chapeau
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
A DFV is about £125k, rebuilds are circa £15k if nothing is broken. They need a rebuild every 1000 miles, they generally need 2 rebuilds per season of historic F1 if doing all the rounds.Chapeau
(I suspect today’s F1 cars will be impossible for anyone except the factory to keep running in future, with the complex hybrid powertrains).
Gearbox is a season between full rebuild, depending on driver you may need new dog rings each event. Good drivers they last all year. Doing it properly you crack test the gears after every event.
Tyres is probably the biggest consumable cost, £4kish an event.
There is a lot of hours labour, all the load bearing parts have to be crack tested every 2 years by regulation, i would do it every year, if any damage is done in a contact then everything in that area is crack tested at that moment.
They are not stupid expensive to run in many respects as you can make anything, running a modern GT you have to buy direct from the manufacturer at their silly prices.
TheDeuce said:
Forester1965 said:
You're right, I am annoyed. Mainly because F1 was my favourite sport and now it's gone, as far as I'm concerned. I've watched it a bit out of habit this past couple of years, but I resent it.
Of course it belongs to Liberty and they're, excuse the pun, at liberty to do what they want with it. What's commercially attractive isn't necessarily what made F1 attractive though, for me. There isn't an equivalent motorsport to move to.
AD2021 felt like a watershed to me. Not because I'm partisan (yes, I wanted Hamilton to win and felt he'd done everything he needed to to achieve it). Because it was just wrong. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton had been handed that race, it'd have been tainted and I'd never have counted it in my head as a win. Yet the sport whitewashed the whole thing. The tribal 'football style' fans (of either persuasion) can't discuss it civilly.
F1 fans used to be united by the fact they liked motorsport, loved F1, and above all they could debate a junk pitstop from 15 years ago without falling out. A world now from the past.
Once again, I agree. Of course it belongs to Liberty and they're, excuse the pun, at liberty to do what they want with it. What's commercially attractive isn't necessarily what made F1 attractive though, for me. There isn't an equivalent motorsport to move to.
AD2021 felt like a watershed to me. Not because I'm partisan (yes, I wanted Hamilton to win and felt he'd done everything he needed to to achieve it). Because it was just wrong. If the roles were reversed and Hamilton had been handed that race, it'd have been tainted and I'd never have counted it in my head as a win. Yet the sport whitewashed the whole thing. The tribal 'football style' fans (of either persuasion) can't discuss it civilly.
F1 fans used to be united by the fact they liked motorsport, loved F1, and above all they could debate a junk pitstop from 15 years ago without falling out. A world now from the past.
I also agree that if Lewis had win 2021, it would have still been tainted - the entire season was plagued with BS penalties and blind eyes for the sake of artificially creating a neck and neck finale. It would always have been tainted whoever won it.
Neither of us can get back the F1 that we were drawn to originally. Staying power and mild interest just about keeps me hooked.
Also to be honest this forum. We're all able to lament what's going on as a group!! Perhaps that's why this is the first race thread in years that has ended with us discussing F1 constructively, not bickering? Finally the majority are on the same page.. all equally dissolutioned and a bit sad.
Aston Martin have put in a formal appeal against Fernando Alsono’s penalty at the Sprint in China.
https://x.com/chrismedlandf1/status/17852804635415...
Hearing to be held in Miami on Friday.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-d...
The team needs to have “significant and relevant new element which was unavailable to the party seeking the Review at the time of the decision concerned.”
https://x.com/chrismedlandf1/status/17852804635415...
Hearing to be held in Miami on Friday.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-d...
The team needs to have “significant and relevant new element which was unavailable to the party seeking the Review at the time of the decision concerned.”
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff