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Vitorio
464 posts
13 months
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kambites said: Do the plugs really stick straight out of the ends of the banks? I'd assumed they came out of the side (as in the top, the way the engine is aligned) of the heads? I'm no porsche specialist, but i've lookd into some DOHC boxer engines, and the plugs sit between the camshafts, like they would in a normal cilinderhead, in other worse, directly in the length-direction of the cilinder/piston, so in order to change the plugs on a DOHC boxer you end up having to take them out of the heads with only the space between the head and the enginebay sidewall to work with, which in some cases might be easier from below rather then the top, bonnet or no bonnet.
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Mister3man
225 posts
17 months
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230TE said: I've run a marque specialist repair/restoration business for the last eight years. Right now I'm posting rubbish on the Internet to delay having to start a monumental chassis welding job that I really don't feel like tackling today. Apart from that... Sounds fun. Weld up the bonnet while you're there and then service the engine. Let me know how it goes 
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kambites
33,222 posts
91 months
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Vitorio said: I'm no porsche specialist, but i've lookd into some DOHC boxer engines, and the plugs sit between the camshafts, like they would in a normal cilinderhead, in other worse, directly in the length-direction of the cilinder/piston, so in order to change the plugs on a DOHC boxer you end up having to take them out of the heads with only the space between the head and the enginebay sidewall to work with, which in some cases might be easier from below rather then the top, bonnet or no bonnet. Hmm, it hadn't occurred to me that twin-cam engines tended to have the plugs between the camshafts, but you are of course right. So yes, probably easier from the bottom than the top if there are no chassis members in the way. 
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230TE
Original Poster
528 posts
56 months
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Mister3man said: Sounds fun. Weld up the bonnet while you're then and then service the engine. Let me know how it goes You're not thinking laterally enough. Long life plugs and hydraulic tappets. Oil, air and fuel filters, and ancillary drive belt - you can easily make all of these accessible from underneath. Chain-cam or long life belt. What's left on a routine service that has to be accessed from above? I'm not saying this would be a good thing - for small independent garages and DIY-ers it would be a right pain. But the way car design seems to be heading, fifteen years from now there won't be any small garages or spanner-wielding amateurs doing major work on newish cars anyway. We're already a long way towards the 'sealed for life' car - just change the oil and filters every so often, then take it back to the manufacturer for recycling when one of the major bits wears out.
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Vitorio
464 posts
13 months
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kambites said: Hmm, it hadn't occurred to me that twin-cam engines tended to have the plugs between the camshafts, but you are of course right. So yes, probably easier from the bottom than the top if there are no chassis members in the way. one guy in the alfa community used to solve this problem on a 1.7 16v boxer by drilling four large holes in the engine bay wall to stick his wrong through by the way :P
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kambites
33,222 posts
91 months
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I'm pretty sure that I have changed the spark plugs on an Alfa boxer, but it was so long about I can't remember where they were.
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The Beaver King
3,620 posts
65 months
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I may be wrong, but didn't some TVR models have a small/hatch that gave access to the essentials i.e. oil, water etc? If I recall, any engine work required a body lift. Although a body lift on TVR's isn't usually more than 8 bolts 
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Wills2
5,503 posts
45 months
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Captain Muppet said: 911p said: New Porsche 991 doesn't have a bonnet as such, a little different from the front engines cars you're talking about though.  It does have a massive bonnet at the front, giving access to the brake fluid and all the luggage. I'd say with the 911 its bonnet is a boot and vice versa. I think it's a shame that they are covering up engines these days, after all everyone likes looking/pointing at things in an engine bay (whilst trying to sound like they know what they are) don't they?
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monthefish
15,904 posts
101 months
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Didn't the TVR Tuscan have this type of arrangement, whereby the full bonnet was a service only job?
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Mister3man
225 posts
17 months
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230TE said: You're not thinking laterally enough. Long life plugs and hydraulic tappets. Oil, air and fuel filters, and ancillary drive belt - you can easily make all of these accessible from underneath. Chain-cam or long life belt. What's left on a routine service that has to be accessed from above?
I'm not saying this would be a good thing - for small independent garages and DIY-ers it would be a right pain. But the way car design seems to be heading, fifteen years from now there won't be any small garages or spanner-wielding amateurs doing major work on newish cars anyway. We're already a long way towards the 'sealed for life' car - just change the oil and filters every so often, then take it back to the manufacturer for recycling when one of the major bits wears out. You make some excellent points, you really do. I see where you're coming from. But I think my patience would wear thin when something does go wrong. Especially when all that work would be required just to replace a rocker cover gasket or coil pack etc etc. The public dont like paying labour rates as it is!!
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Vitorio
464 posts
13 months
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kambites said: I'm pretty sure that I have changed the spark plugs on an Alfa boxer, but it was so long about I can't remember where they were. I had a go at changing them in an 8v boxer, there they are located on the upward-facing side of the cilinderhead, so pretty well accesible, but in my case the leads were stuck on so strong that i couldnt get them off very well. ended up selling the car before i got around to changing the plugs.
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LukeSi
5,095 posts
31 months
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monthefish said: Didn't the TVR Tuscan have this type of arrangement, whereby the full bonnet was a service only job?  The front bit is the service bonnet, which is the only bit you need to lift to fill fluids (I believe).
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Ian974
1,596 posts
69 months
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On the new porsche, I'm sure there was an article/video not that long ago that demonstrated that it was bumper & exhaust off just to change the air filter. Or do pretty much anything else.
Progress!
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ajprice
7,356 posts
66 months
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monthefish said: Didn't the TVR Tuscan have this type of arrangement, whereby the full bonnet was a service only job? To add to LukeSi above, this is the service bonnet part fully open. 
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JB!
3,849 posts
50 months
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Sod that!!!!
I refuse to own anything that I can't strip down and work on myself.
That's the biggest thing putting me off a B5 S4, it's engine-out for turbos and front end off for a cambelt!
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Watchman
2,039 posts
115 months
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Do people really still check spark plugs? Since modern Electronic Ignition and EFI took over, sparkplugs aren't lifed like they one were. I think my first ones were replaced at 60K miles and then only because we we diagnosing an issue which turned out to be something else. The removed plugs were fine.
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monthefish
15,904 posts
101 months
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ajprice said: monthefish said: Didn't the TVR Tuscan have this type of arrangement, whereby the full bonnet was a service only job? To add to LukeSi above, this is the service bonnet part fully open. Superb design. I miss TVR. The car world is a poorer place without them.
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kambites
33,222 posts
91 months
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Watchman said: Do people really still check spark plugs? Since modern Electronic Ignition and EFI took over, sparkplugs aren't lifed like they one were. I think my first ones were replaced at 60K miles and then only because we we diagnosing an issue which turned out to be something else. The removed plugs were fine. I check them for deposits (and usually replace them) if I get a misfire.
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Watchman
2,039 posts
115 months
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kambites said: Watchman said: Do people really still check spark plugs? Since modern Electronic Ignition and EFI took over, sparkplugs aren't lifed like they one were. I think my first ones were replaced at 60K miles and then only because we we diagnosing an issue which turned out to be something else. The removed plugs were fine. I check them for deposits (and usually replace them) if I get a misfire. That makes it sound like you have regular misfires. I'd suggest something else amiss.
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