RE: 2024 Porsche Macan Turbo | PH Review
Discussion
b0rk said:
Nomme de Plum said:
There is a petrol version available in the UK until end 2024 or maybe mid 2025 and in Europe longer.
Um no, Europe well the EU is discontinued first. The UK end of sale is post EU.ICE macan sales for factory spec’d orders for have already ended for the EU market. The cut off was the January allocation round. The ICE car doesn’t meet EU regs as of July ‘24 which is last possible registration/sale date.
Just to point out but the Porsche.de configurator states “Das gewählte Modell ist nicht mehr als frei konfigurierbarer Neuwagen bestellbar.” In English that’s selected model can no longer be ordered as configurable new car.
Nomme de Plum said:
b0rk said:
Nomme de Plum said:
There is a petrol version available in the UK until end 2024 or maybe mid 2025 and in Europe longer.
Um no, Europe well the EU is discontinued first. The UK end of sale is post EU.ICE macan sales for factory spec’d orders for have already ended for the EU market. The cut off was the January allocation round. The ICE car doesn’t meet EU regs as of July ‘24 which is last possible registration/sale date.
Just to point out but the Porsche.de configurator states “Das gewählte Modell ist nicht mehr als frei konfigurierbarer Neuwagen bestellbar.” In English that’s selected model can no longer be ordered as configurable new car.
cerb4.5lee said:
Nomme de Plum said:
cerb4.5lee said:
About 10 pence if the Taycan is anything to go by! 
What is the cheapest one currently available for sale? Spec, Age Mileage should do.
andy43 said:
Nomme de Plum said:
jaacck said:
I think these looks great inside and out. I just wont be buying an EV anytime soon.
Quite bold for them to not bring out a petrol version also, seems like they will miss out on a lot of business by making it EV only. I imagine the EV doubt / huge market crash of the taycan happened so late into the production of this that it was too late to go back.
There is a petrol version available in the UK until end 2024 or maybe mid 2025 and in Europe longer.Quite bold for them to not bring out a petrol version also, seems like they will miss out on a lot of business by making it EV only. I imagine the EV doubt / huge market crash of the taycan happened so late into the production of this that it was too late to go back.
Taycan has outsold the Panamera 40K to 34K so how do you call that a crash?
Cheap company motoring is the main reason it’s sold 40,000 units. Electric Macan will be exactly the same while the incentives are there.
J4CKO said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Nomme de Plum said:
cerb4.5lee said:
About 10 pence if the Taycan is anything to go by!
What is the cheapest one currently available for sale? Spec, Age Mileage should do.andy43 said:
It’d be interesting to compare percentage of private buyers of Taycans with private buyers of Panameras.
Cheap company motoring is the main reason it’s sold 40,000 units. Electric Macan will be exactly the same while the incentives are there.
30% retail Taycan buyers in UK in 2023 - so just under 2,400 units, or roughly 3 times total Panamera (across all channels)Cheap company motoring is the main reason it’s sold 40,000 units. Electric Macan will be exactly the same while the incentives are there.
Also bear in mind that a large chunk of the other 70% is made up of small business purchases (as opposed to leases), where the same retail buyer who would've bought a Cayenne or whatever privately, is just putting it through their own business to use the corporate incentives - these buyers are still exposed to residuals etc.
P.Griffin said:
There are very few private buyers of Taycans, or most other EVs for that matter. When all incentives are removed (although the way things are going, this might not happen) the consumer will decide whether EVs are going to be a sustainable solution to the target of net zero cars by 2035. Tech will improve no doubt, but there's only 11 years to go from 15% market share to 100%. Big ask IMHO.
The zero-bribery consumer has already spoken. Look at the used market. Nobody wants them.I’d love to see the numbers of private buyers vs BIK winners though - my feeling is virtually nobody buys EVs privately. I know of one private Vauxhall EV owner - and that’s probably leased - everyone else EV is via company car schemes/business owners.
Pretty sharp looking and taking the new design cues onboard. Hides its physics failing gigantic weight and egowagon status well. Interior aside from the usual and silly clock looks pretty nice too. Plenty to keep the front passenger happy.
Even though it is amazing how many SUV driver seem unable to use carplay and dive about using their phones, causing havoc.
Reckon it will sell well.
Even though it is amazing how many SUV driver seem unable to use carplay and dive about using their phones, causing havoc.
Reckon it will sell well.
SuperPav said:
30% retail Taycan buyers in UK in 2023 - so just under 2,400 units, or roughly 3 times total Panamera (across all channels)
Also bear in mind that a large chunk of the other 70% is made up of small business purchases (as opposed to leases), where the same retail buyer who would've bought a Cayenne or whatever privately, is just putting it through their own business to use the corporate incentives - these buyers are still exposed to residuals etc.
Ah ok if thats correct that’s far more private buyers than I thought.Also bear in mind that a large chunk of the other 70% is made up of small business purchases (as opposed to leases), where the same retail buyer who would've bought a Cayenne or whatever privately, is just putting it through their own business to use the corporate incentives - these buyers are still exposed to residuals etc.
Maybe there’s hope for the planet yet
andy43 said:
SuperPav said:
30% retail Taycan buyers in UK in 2023 - so just under 2,400 units, or roughly 3 times total Panamera (across all channels)
Also bear in mind that a large chunk of the other 70% is made up of small business purchases (as opposed to leases), where the same retail buyer who would've bought a Cayenne or whatever privately, is just putting it through their own business to use the corporate incentives - these buyers are still exposed to residuals etc.
Ah ok if thats correct that’s far more private buyers than I thought.Also bear in mind that a large chunk of the other 70% is made up of small business purchases (as opposed to leases), where the same retail buyer who would've bought a Cayenne or whatever privately, is just putting it through their own business to use the corporate incentives - these buyers are still exposed to residuals etc.
Maybe there’s hope for the planet yet
As an edit after I posted, first hit on a google search brings this....question already been asked.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by P.Griffin on Thursday 25th April 09:27
P.Griffin said:
Where did you get those stats SuperPav? Not suggesting you are wrong, just curious to know your source. Seems high to me.
As an edit after I posted, first hit on a google search brings this....question already been asked.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
While I won't post my exact job here, the data above is from SMMT MVRIS new car registration datasets. Publicly available does not mean you can google it at that level of granularity, but any company/user that signs up to their data services can run the same numbers as I've quoted...As an edit after I posted, first hit on a google search brings this....question already been asked.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by P.Griffin on Thursday 25th April 09:27
SuperPav said:
P.Griffin said:
Where did you get those stats SuperPav? Not suggesting you are wrong, just curious to know your source. Seems high to me.
As an edit after I posted, first hit on a google search brings this....question already been asked.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
While I won't post my exact job here, the data above is from SMMT MVRIS new car registration datasets. Publicly available does not mean you can google it at that level of granularity, but any company/user that signs up to their data services can run the same numbers as I've quoted...As an edit after I posted, first hit on a google search brings this....question already been asked.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by P.Griffin on Thursday 25th April 09:27
Blackpuddin said:
Anybody else wondering if Porsche (who I belleve are in the forefront of synth fuel development) might be trying to hedge its bets by keeping the ICE lines open?
Apparently they are not keeping the ICE lines open. In the EU they are fulfilling existing orders only and here for a few months longer for the Macan ICE. Apparently it's a legislation issue
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsch...
J4CKO said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Nomme de Plum said:
cerb4.5lee said:
About 10 pence if the Taycan is anything to go by!
What is the cheapest one currently available for sale? Spec, Age Mileage should do.Now we are back to reality. The below is a useful guide for most normal cars.
Year 1: 15-35% depreciation. 65-85% of the original value.
Year 3: 40-60% depreciation. 40-65% of the original value.
Year 5: 60-70% depreciation. 30-40% of the original value.
Year 8-10: 80% depreciation. 20% of the original value.
Here's one of the cheapest Taycans I can find and it's bang on that depreciation guide. (The base Taycan 4S starts at £83,367.00 RRP)
https://www.cargurus.co.uk/Cars/l-Used-Porsche-Tay...
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 25th April 10:01
Nomme de Plum said:
Blackpuddin said:
Anybody else wondering if Porsche (who I belleve are in the forefront of synth fuel development) might be trying to hedge its bets by keeping the ICE lines open?
Apparently they are not keeping the ICE lines open. In the EU they are fulfilling existing orders only and here for a few months longer for the Macan ICE. Apparently it's a legislation issue
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/porsch...
Blackpuddin said:
I bet they and a few other manufacturers will keep their ICE options open somehow, even if that doesn't include a retail presence in the short term.
How will they do that? The EU/UK ICE ban is aligned at 2035 but the EU has intimated other legislation which and ICEs will need to comply to continue to be marketed without a heavy per car fine.
Nomme de Plum said:
Blackpuddin said:
I bet they and a few other manufacturers will keep their ICE options open somehow, even if that doesn't include a retail presence in the short term.
How will they do that? The EU/UK ICE ban is aligned at 2035 but the EU has intimated other legislation which and ICEs will need to comply to continue to be marketed without a heavy per car fine.
Net zero cars has been pushed back once already...I wouldn't bet it doesn't happen again to avoid the above scenario. And I believe manufacturers are thinking the same, hedging their bets that the legislators are wrong (yet again)by keeping ICE at least on the back burner.
It's not yet clear whether it's even achievable due to the demand for lithium. They just don't know if we can mine enough lithium that quickly while not leaving behind a litany of ecological disasters and human rights abuses in our wake.
Edited by P.Griffin on Thursday 25th April 11:00
P.Griffin said:
Fair. Does that retail figure include Salary Sacrifice purchases?
No, salary sacrifice would normally fall under "Fleet" as most of these schemes are provided or administered by companies with fleets of 100s of cars (therefore classifying the MVRIS registration as Fleet rather than Business). Business (SME's etc.) is ~35%, Fleet ~20% of the 2023 registrations.
Remainder would be combination of dealer regs (launch, showroom, demo, loaner cars) manufacturer internal regs (promotional fleets, manager cars etc.)
For reference total market 2023 was: Private 42%, Business 2%, Fleet 47%, Manf/Dealer 9%
The BEV total market 2023 as expected quite different: Private 22%, Business 6%, Fleet 65%, Manf/Dealer 7%
All figures SMMT. Compared to that, Porsche still sell a very large proportion to private buyers, or to individual business owners.
P.Griffin said:
Theoretical situation. EU/UK ban the sale of ICE cars. In the run up to 2035, those who don't want an EV buy the last ICEs available, and plan on keeping for 10 years +. New EV sales plummet, jeopardising economies worldwide (given the size of major car manufacturers) Governments U turn on ICE legislation.
Net zero cars has been pushed back once already...I wouldn't bet it doesn't happen again to avoid the above scenario. And I believe manufacturers are thinking the same, hedging their bets that the legislators are wrong (yet again)by keeping ICE at least on the back burner.
The 2035 date was always the date set by the Eu. It was Boris who tried to be clever and say we can go quicker. Effectively it was nothing more than the UK realigning with what had already been agreed with Motor Manufacturers and the EU. Net zero cars has been pushed back once already...I wouldn't bet it doesn't happen again to avoid the above scenario. And I believe manufacturers are thinking the same, hedging their bets that the legislators are wrong (yet again)by keeping ICE at least on the back burner.
Edited by P.Griffin on Thursday 25th April 10:40
Whether it gets changed again no-one can know but all the major motor manufactures have ceased meaningful ICE development and shifted all their focus and investment into EVs. Going back could bankrupt some. Meanwhile China are knocking out EVs at prices the rest of the world can only dream of. They have a good margin in their products and sell in China much less than elsewhere. They haven't as yet really challenged the West but could do so. If the West stalls China will just roll over us economically.
Private car sales are down nearly 10% this year surely this can come as no surprise with interest rates so high. I will restate that the vast majority of car transactions are at the more economic used car range (5.5 M versus 2M new). With only 1M EVs that market is starved of the newer EVs. This will take at least until 2030 to change. In theory there will be 7M EVs in the UK which is sill only just one 20% of cars.
Of course we have no idea what a new Government may do in the UK.
Back on topic Porsche are still making 18% and providing their EV roll out maintains this I don't see them changing course now.
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