Discussion
M3John said:
Mr E said:
Hey, Flemke - was that your letter in this months Evo?
What page is that on if you don't mind me asking?It was just a little observation on the trend in new "sports cars" for the machine to do more and more of the driving, which leaves less and less of it for the driver to do.
I found it ironic that evo has been giving high praise to such cars, although the magazine's strapline is "The Thrill of Driving", not "The Thrill of Being a Passenger".
flemke said:
I suppose my problems with the Lotus (Elise) are that the cars have got progressively (as in, 'regressively') heavier over the last ten years, their engines have always been uninspired, and the last one I drove ('07 Exige) had just about the poorest brake pedal set-up that I have ever come across.
That goes back to what you were saying about the elf'n'safety morons. Unfortunately there cars are still in production - now they're 'world cars' (my god, I really hate that phrase) they're having to fit airbags, ABS and all that jazz. I don't suppose the change from a K-Series to a Toyota lump can have helped much either.Nonetheless, you should get yourself a drive in an '08 Exige with the Performance Pack.
Alistair explained that the problems with the brakes were caused by starting with a non-servoed, non-ABS system - to which they added a servo and ABS. The new system they have is an all-new AP 'pedal-calipers' set-up. You simply will not believe how much better the brakes are as a result.
That horrible dead spot at the top of the travel has now completely disappeared, as has that weird 'are these discs made of sponge' feeling when you're really getting stuck in.
The re-map has also made a big difference - it's got a much beefier mid-range and smoother delivery now.
MrKipling43 said:
Alistair explained that the problems with the brakes were caused by starting with a non-servoed, non-ABS system - to which they added a servo and ABS. The new system they have is an all-new AP 'pedal-calipers' set-up. You simply will not believe how much better the brakes are as a result.
That horrible dead spot at the top of the travel has now completely disappeared, as has that weird 'are these discs made of sponge' feeling when you're really getting stuck in.
Hmmm, time for me to drive antoher one then, as the above points (especially the dead zone at the top of the pedal travel and the 'squishy' feel) were exactly the ones I took note of when driving the then-new 111R (having driven a Mk1 111S and a bone stock K-series Mk2 before)...That horrible dead spot at the top of the travel has now completely disappeared, as has that weird 'are these discs made of sponge' feeling when you're really getting stuck in.
flemke said:
LongLiveTazio said:
Ever driven a Jaguar XJR-15, flemke?
No. I can only recall one time ever seeing one in the flesh and, goodness me, did it look better than the XJ220. I'd be very curious to drive one. ISTR, however, a road test 2-3 years ago in which the reviewer was less impressed with it than one expected. (Might its bad performance have related to ergonomics, heat, noise, gearshift - those sorts of things?)Having said that, I'm not sure that I could ever be comfortable with a car whose godfather was Tom Walkinshaw.
I've never seen either in the flesh either
900T-R said:
Hmmm, time for me to drive antoher one then, as the above points (especially the dead zone at the top of the pedal travel and the 'squishy' feel) were exactly the ones I took note of when driving the then-new 111R (having driven a Mk1 111S and a bone stock K-series Mk2 before)...
I'm not sure which cars you can get the new brakes on...I drove the Elise SC and they weren't offered on that in January, which I though was odd. They might have changed their mind though.
flemke said:
I'd be very curious to drive one. ISTR, however, a road test 2-3 years ago in which the reviewer was less impressed with it than one expected. (Might its bad performance have related to ergonomics, heat, noise, gearshift - those sorts of things?)
IIRC the few period driving pieces were quite critical of the handling, which was a bit spiky to say the least. That big old V12 was mounted rather high in the chassis and the resultant high polar moment of inertia made oversteer sudden and oft irrecoverable......james_tigerwoods said:
Oddly enough, I always wondered why the XJR15 was never made into a proper roadcar instead of the fatter XJ220 - There was only evern one XJ220 that I liked and that was a Tom Walkinshaw special. Am off to look for a photo now
I've never seen either in the flesh either
Ah yes, that pale yellow thing - according to Performance Car it was a good deal more powerful (680?), a fair bit lighter and pretty well sorted dynamically, if still a tad large. I've never seen either in the flesh either
Flemke,
It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?
In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?
In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 August 16:56
Risotto said:
Flemke,
It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?
In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
i've always been a big fan of this car - apparently 3 prototypes were made, I wonder if they still exist?It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?
In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 August 16:56
flemke said:
M3John said:
Mr E said:
Hey, Flemke - was that your letter in this months Evo?
What page is that on if you don't mind me asking?It was just a little observation on the trend in new "sports cars" for the machine to do more and more of the driving, which leaves less and less of it for the driver to do.
I found it ironic that evo has been giving high praise to such cars, although the magazine's strapline is "The Thrill of Driving", not "The Thrill of Being a Passenger".
Risotto said:
Flemke,
It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?
In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
No, because I just couldn't deal with how it looks.It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?
In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
For me, it's a true retina-wrecker.
LongLiveTazio said:
I feel the XJ220 is a bit maligned, despite having some failings - but doesn't everything? Partially because it's a poster car from my childhood, I still love how they look; they are incredibly wide, mind you! A carbon bodied one with some modern tweakery must feel pretty special...
The guys at McLaren brought one in during the early stages of the F1 project (along with an NSX and F40).They were genuinely incredulous at how much of it turned out to be wasted space.
Well, have to say, spent most of the afternoon reading this thread, facinating reading. Great to hear from someone such as Flemke who is willing to share experiences of one of the, if not the worlds greatest road cars.
I could pour of an F1 for days examining the detail etc, superb machine, but I love the purity of the experience, similar (albeit on a massively reduced scale) to my Lotus Elise.
I once had the pleasure of seeing 3 F1's barrelling down the M20 towards the tunnel, must of been a couple of years back now, but 1 or two were definately LM's, and I'm sure one was Flemke's colour!
Brilliant reading Flemke, look forward to hearing more on the progress.
I could pour of an F1 for days examining the detail etc, superb machine, but I love the purity of the experience, similar (albeit on a massively reduced scale) to my Lotus Elise.
I once had the pleasure of seeing 3 F1's barrelling down the M20 towards the tunnel, must of been a couple of years back now, but 1 or two were definately LM's, and I'm sure one was Flemke's colour!
Brilliant reading Flemke, look forward to hearing more on the progress.
RobboC said:
I could pour of an F1 for days examining the detail etc, superb machine, but I love the purity of the experience, similar (albeit on a massively reduced scale) to my Lotus Elise.
I once had the pleasure of seeing 3 F1's barrelling down the M20 towards the tunnel, must of been a couple of years back now, but 1 or two were definately LM's, and I'm sure one was Flemke's colour!
Cheers.I once had the pleasure of seeing 3 F1's barrelling down the M20 towards the tunnel, must of been a couple of years back now, but 1 or two were definately LM's, and I'm sure one was Flemke's colour!
Yes, the Elise is a car with a similar ethos. It's a pity that more cars aren't like that.
Yuur memory is pretty good, but my car wasn't amongst the trio that I believe you saw, which comprised a red GTR, a yellow/green GTR, and a silver road car:
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3700.asp?...
Couldn't agree more, sadly with crash regualtions, airbags and safety systems the weights will continue to rise to the point where we're all driving around in vehicles that are complete automatic, and have 40 airbags.
Crikey, didn't realise it was that long ago! I remember just getting time to wind the windows down and then try to explain in some detail the rarity of seeing 3 together. Her response was 'yes dear, they're pretty'.....
Fantastic sight and one I shall not forget (or probably see again). I can only dream of owning such a car, but I have a poster of an F1 in my study as a 'motivational' picture to work harder!
Nevertheless, I'm not jealous of people such as yourself that appreciate what they have, just envious! Thanks for the insight.
Crikey, didn't realise it was that long ago! I remember just getting time to wind the windows down and then try to explain in some detail the rarity of seeing 3 together. Her response was 'yes dear, they're pretty'.....
Fantastic sight and one I shall not forget (or probably see again). I can only dream of owning such a car, but I have a poster of an F1 in my study as a 'motivational' picture to work harder!
Nevertheless, I'm not jealous of people such as yourself that appreciate what they have, just envious! Thanks for the insight.
Hahaha! Was actually linked to another 'supercar spotting' thread on here from a Lotus forum, and then saw and became enthralled. I should of been cleaning the cars today, but got into reading this instead.
Very much looking forward to seeing the choice in colour. I too favour the blues, from a 'smurf blue' Renault Clio, to a deeper blue Megane R26 to my ice blue S2 Elise (very similar colour to the F1 just posted).
Very much looking forward to seeing the choice in colour. I too favour the blues, from a 'smurf blue' Renault Clio, to a deeper blue Megane R26 to my ice blue S2 Elise (very similar colour to the F1 just posted).
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