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flemke

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
M3John said:
Mr E said:
Hey, Flemke - was that your letter in this months Evo?

smile
What page is that on if you don't mind me asking?
P 68.
It was just a little observation on the trend in new "sports cars" for the machine to do more and more of the driving, which leaves less and less of it for the driver to do.
I found it ironic that evo has been giving high praise to such cars, although the magazine's strapline is "The Thrill of Driving", not "The Thrill of Being a Passenger".

MrKipling43

5,788 posts

217 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
flemke said:
I suppose my problems with the Lotus (Elise) are that the cars have got progressively (as in, 'regressively') heavier over the last ten years, their engines have always been uninspired, and the last one I drove ('07 Exige) had just about the poorest brake pedal set-up that I have ever come across.
That goes back to what you were saying about the elf'n'safety morons. Unfortunately there cars are still in production - now they're 'world cars' (my god, I really hate that phrase) they're having to fit airbags, ABS and all that jazz. I don't suppose the change from a K-Series to a Toyota lump can have helped much either.

Nonetheless, you should get yourself a drive in an '08 Exige with the Performance Pack.

Alistair explained that the problems with the brakes were caused by starting with a non-servoed, non-ABS system - to which they added a servo and ABS. The new system they have is an all-new AP 'pedal-calipers' set-up. You simply will not believe how much better the brakes are as a result.

That horrible dead spot at the top of the travel has now completely disappeared, as has that weird 'are these discs made of sponge' feeling when you're really getting stuck in.

The re-map has also made a big difference - it's got a much beefier mid-range and smoother delivery now.

Digger.

14,699 posts

192 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
M3John said:
Mr E said:
Hey, Flemke - was that your letter in this months Evo?

smile
What page is that on if you don't mind me asking?
Whats the default threads/page setting? Set mine to 80.Will go and have a rummage thru pages 10-12.

900T-R

20,404 posts

258 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
MrKipling43 said:
Alistair explained that the problems with the brakes were caused by starting with a non-servoed, non-ABS system - to which they added a servo and ABS. The new system they have is an all-new AP 'pedal-calipers' set-up. You simply will not believe how much better the brakes are as a result.

That horrible dead spot at the top of the travel has now completely disappeared, as has that weird 'are these discs made of sponge' feeling when you're really getting stuck in.
scratchchin Hmmm, time for me to drive antoher one then, as the above points (especially the dead zone at the top of the pedal travel and the 'squishy' feel) were exactly the ones I took note of when driving the then-new 111R (having driven a Mk1 111S and a bone stock K-series Mk2 before)...

james_tigerwoods

16,287 posts

198 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
flemke said:
LongLiveTazio said:
Ever driven a Jaguar XJR-15, flemke?
No. I can only recall one time ever seeing one in the flesh and, goodness me, did it look better than the XJ220. I'd be very curious to drive one. ISTR, however, a road test 2-3 years ago in which the reviewer was less impressed with it than one expected. (Might its bad performance have related to ergonomics, heat, noise, gearshift - those sorts of things?)
Having said that, I'm not sure that I could ever be comfortable with a car whose godfather was Tom Walkinshaw.
Oddly enough, I always wondered why the XJR15 was never made into a proper roadcar instead of the fatter XJ220 - There was only evern one XJ220 that I liked and that was a Tom Walkinshaw special. Am off to look for a photo now smile

I've never seen either in the flesh either frown

MrKipling43

5,788 posts

217 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
900T-R said:
scratchchin Hmmm, time for me to drive antoher one then, as the above points (especially the dead zone at the top of the pedal travel and the 'squishy' feel) were exactly the ones I took note of when driving the then-new 111R (having driven a Mk1 111S and a bone stock K-series Mk2 before)...
I'm not sure which cars you can get the new brakes on...

I drove the Elise SC and they weren't offered on that in January, which I though was odd. They might have changed their mind though.

trackdemon

12,193 posts

262 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
flemke said:
I'd be very curious to drive one. ISTR, however, a road test 2-3 years ago in which the reviewer was less impressed with it than one expected. (Might its bad performance have related to ergonomics, heat, noise, gearshift - those sorts of things?)
IIRC the few period driving pieces were quite critical of the handling, which was a bit spiky to say the least. That big old V12 was mounted rather high in the chassis and the resultant high polar moment of inertia made oversteer sudden and oft irrecoverable......

900T-R

20,404 posts

258 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
james_tigerwoods said:
Oddly enough, I always wondered why the XJR15 was never made into a proper roadcar instead of the fatter XJ220 - There was only evern one XJ220 that I liked and that was a Tom Walkinshaw special. Am off to look for a photo now smile

I've never seen either in the flesh either frown
Ah yes, that pale yellow thing - according to Performance Car it was a good deal more powerful (680?), a fair bit lighter and pretty well sorted dynamically, if still a tad large. wink

Risotto

3,928 posts

213 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
Flemke,

It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?

In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.



Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 August 16:56

egomeister

6,703 posts

264 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
Risotto said:
Flemke,

It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?

In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.



Edited by Risotto on Friday 22 August 16:56
i've always been a big fan of this car - apparently 3 prototypes were made, I wonder if they still exist?

M3John

5,974 posts

220 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
flemke said:
M3John said:
Mr E said:
Hey, Flemke - was that your letter in this months Evo?

smile
What page is that on if you don't mind me asking?
P 68.
It was just a little observation on the trend in new "sports cars" for the machine to do more and more of the driving, which leaves less and less of it for the driver to do.
I found it ironic that evo has been giving high praise to such cars, although the magazine's strapline is "The Thrill of Driving", not "The Thrill of Being a Passenger".
Good point well made Mr F.

flemke

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
Risotto said:
Flemke,

It's a bit of a moot point as Yamaha canned the project; but if the OX99-11 had gone into production, is it something you would have considered instead of the McLaren?

In some respects they were similar concepts - central driving position, naturally aspirated V12, high-tech/lightweight materials, comparable performance targets, etc.
No, because I just couldn't deal with how it looks.
For me, it's a true retina-wrecker.

LongLiveTazio

2,714 posts

198 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
I feel the XJ220 is a bit maligned, despite having some failings - but doesn't everything? Partially because it's a poster car from my childhood, I still love how they look; they are incredibly wide, mind you! A carbon bodied one with some modern tweakery must feel pretty special...

flemke

22,865 posts

238 months

Friday 22nd August 2008
quotequote all
LongLiveTazio said:
I feel the XJ220 is a bit maligned, despite having some failings - but doesn't everything? Partially because it's a poster car from my childhood, I still love how they look; they are incredibly wide, mind you! A carbon bodied one with some modern tweakery must feel pretty special...
The guys at McLaren brought one in during the early stages of the F1 project (along with an NSX and F40).
They were genuinely incredulous at how much of it turned out to be wasted space.

LongLiveTazio

2,714 posts

198 months

Saturday 23rd August 2008
quotequote all
Doesn't surprise me, it was built in a shed with a budget of £50. Part of the reason I like it, mind you.

RobboC

1,537 posts

262 months

Sunday 24th August 2008
quotequote all
Well, have to say, spent most of the afternoon reading this thread, facinating reading. Great to hear from someone such as Flemke who is willing to share experiences of one of the, if not the worlds greatest road cars.

I could pour of an F1 for days examining the detail etc, superb machine, but I love the purity of the experience, similar (albeit on a massively reduced scale) to my Lotus Elise.

I once had the pleasure of seeing 3 F1's barrelling down the M20 towards the tunnel, must of been a couple of years back now, but 1 or two were definately LM's, and I'm sure one was Flemke's colour!

Brilliant reading Flemke, look forward to hearing more on the progress. clap


flemke

22,865 posts

238 months

Sunday 24th August 2008
quotequote all
RobboC said:
I could pour of an F1 for days examining the detail etc, superb machine, but I love the purity of the experience, similar (albeit on a massively reduced scale) to my Lotus Elise.

I once had the pleasure of seeing 3 F1's barrelling down the M20 towards the tunnel, must of been a couple of years back now, but 1 or two were definately LM's, and I'm sure one was Flemke's colour!
Cheers.
Yes, the Elise is a car with a similar ethos. It's a pity that more cars aren't like that.

Yuur memory is pretty good, but my car wasn't amongst the trio that I believe you saw, which comprised a red GTR, a yellow/green GTR, and a silver road car:
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3700.asp?...

RobboC

1,537 posts

262 months

Sunday 24th August 2008
quotequote all
Couldn't agree more, sadly with crash regualtions, airbags and safety systems the weights will continue to rise to the point where we're all driving around in vehicles that are complete automatic, and have 40 airbags. frown

Crikey, didn't realise it was that long ago! I remember just getting time to wind the windows down and then try to explain in some detail the rarity of seeing 3 together. Her response was 'yes dear, they're pretty'.....

Fantastic sight and one I shall not forget (or probably see again). I can only dream of owning such a car, but I have a poster of an F1 in my study as a 'motivational' picture to work harder! biggrin

Nevertheless, I'm not jealous of people such as yourself that appreciate what they have, just envious! Thanks for the insight.

flemke

22,865 posts

238 months

Sunday 24th August 2008
quotequote all
RobboC said:
Nevertheless, I'm not jealous of people such as yourself that appreciate what they have, just envious! Thanks for the insight.
And I, sir, am honoured that fully half of your posts during your 73 months on Pistonheads have been on this thread! wink

RobboC

1,537 posts

262 months

Sunday 24th August 2008
quotequote all
Hahaha! Was actually linked to another 'supercar spotting' thread on here from a Lotus forum, and then saw and became enthralled. I should of been cleaning the cars today, but got into reading this instead.

Very much looking forward to seeing the choice in colour. I too favour the blues, from a 'smurf blue' Renault Clio, to a deeper blue Megane R26 to my ice blue S2 Elise (very similar colour to the F1 just posted).


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