So, now that the GT4 specs are finally known....
Poll: So, now that the GT4 specs are finally known....
Total Members Polled: 158
Discussion
....and
1) Nordschleife times are essentially the same as the the 997.1 GT3
2) Power is "at least" 385hp so power to weight ratios are almost identical
3) 997.1 GT3 prices are going to be roughly comparable with new GT4 prices
...which would you have given the choice? A 997.1 GT3 or a Cayman GT4?
I don't have any LOI for a GT4 or anything, but in my head hypothetically, I think once I got over the "ooo new and shiny" moment of a GT4, I'd want to go back to my GT3 for 2 simnple reasons:
- rear-engined so more unusual in today's world where all other supercars etc which are mid- or front-engined
- a screaming 3.6 rather then a fairly generic 3.8
In the words of the Monkey: tell me I'm wrong.
1) Nordschleife times are essentially the same as the the 997.1 GT3
2) Power is "at least" 385hp so power to weight ratios are almost identical
3) 997.1 GT3 prices are going to be roughly comparable with new GT4 prices
...which would you have given the choice? A 997.1 GT3 or a Cayman GT4?
I don't have any LOI for a GT4 or anything, but in my head hypothetically, I think once I got over the "ooo new and shiny" moment of a GT4, I'd want to go back to my GT3 for 2 simnple reasons:
- rear-engined so more unusual in today's world where all other supercars etc which are mid- or front-engined
- a screaming 3.6 rather then a fairly generic 3.8
In the words of the Monkey: tell me I'm wrong.
This is exactly my situation and ivbe no clue!
LOI with 3k deposit is in with OPC although I suspect I wont get one of the 1st calls having not bought new from them before. Doesn't help that my 997 GT3 is a real good one.
The idea of new car with 3yr Warranty appeals but as you say this may wear off after a short time especially is it loses me cash and then I start wanting the gt3 back.
Decisions decisions
LOI with 3k deposit is in with OPC although I suspect I wont get one of the 1st calls having not bought new from them before. Doesn't help that my 997 GT3 is a real good one.
The idea of new car with 3yr Warranty appeals but as you say this may wear off after a short time especially is it loses me cash and then I start wanting the gt3 back.
Decisions decisions
The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success,
"BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
"BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
pete a said:
The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success,
"BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
GT4 would be way too fast with 430bhp for the spec sheet :-("BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
Where is the "I'm poor, I'll take a used Cayman R" option? 
Reading the press release I would have said GT4, simply for the novelty value of an unleashed Cayman that ticks with all the right boxes:
N/A flat six with >400 actual bhp
perfect chassis with GT3 genes
reasonable price
zero depreciation
However the EVO video with Preuninger confirmed my suspicions that this will NOT be a one-off unique unicorn RS 4.0 type of deal that will never happen again. Heck even the RS 4.0 is about to take a hit from the manual 991 GT4 RS (4.0?).
He made it quite clear that if the Cayman GT4 is a success there will be another one, possibly even other variants, which could be seen as a hint at a GT4-RS. He also made clear that N/A engines and manual boxes will be around for as long as there is demand for them.*
That's a big question mark next to "zero depreciation" then.
The supposed reasonable price gets quite punchy once you option all the right bits. Buckets, Clubsport, PCM, Alcantara with stitching and other things all add up to 80-85k easily. In my opinion these are a must or the car makes no sense. Porsche obviously knows this.
I'm gambling on a used GT4 in ~4-5 years time and a bargain Cayman R or Spyder in the meantime. Both of these are lighter and smaller than the new car and — if ride height and spring weight are any indication — maybe even more usable in real life. The hydraulic steering rack is an added perk, as good as the electric GT3/GT4 one may be, it may not quite "there" yet.
Admittedly if I had the money on the side I'd probably splurge it on a GT4 right now but I'm not willing to sell off other cars in order to buy a car with a relatively real risk of depreciation. That's what I keep telling myself...
Reading the press release I would have said GT4, simply for the novelty value of an unleashed Cayman that ticks with all the right boxes:
N/A flat six with >400 actual bhp
perfect chassis with GT3 genes
reasonable price
zero depreciation
However the EVO video with Preuninger confirmed my suspicions that this will NOT be a one-off unique unicorn RS 4.0 type of deal that will never happen again. Heck even the RS 4.0 is about to take a hit from the manual 991 GT4 RS (4.0?).
He made it quite clear that if the Cayman GT4 is a success there will be another one, possibly even other variants, which could be seen as a hint at a GT4-RS. He also made clear that N/A engines and manual boxes will be around for as long as there is demand for them.*
That's a big question mark next to "zero depreciation" then.
The supposed reasonable price gets quite punchy once you option all the right bits. Buckets, Clubsport, PCM, Alcantara with stitching and other things all add up to 80-85k easily. In my opinion these are a must or the car makes no sense. Porsche obviously knows this.
I'm gambling on a used GT4 in ~4-5 years time and a bargain Cayman R or Spyder in the meantime. Both of these are lighter and smaller than the new car and — if ride height and spring weight are any indication — maybe even more usable in real life. The hydraulic steering rack is an added perk, as good as the electric GT3/GT4 one may be, it may not quite "there" yet.
Admittedly if I had the money on the side I'd probably splurge it on a GT4 right now but I'm not willing to sell off other cars in order to buy a car with a relatively real risk of depreciation. That's what I keep telling myself...
- he also stated that Co2 for the GT engines is not such a big deal in the big picture. Thank you, future base 981.2 turbo flat-4 PDK drivers, for making these hardcore GT cars possible in the future.
Edited by EricE on Wednesday 4th February 10:33
pete a said:
The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success,
"BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
I'd agree with this. It's probably not entirely rational and doesn't affect how well the car drives but it's hard to get past the idea the gt4 isn't the best it could be even given the price differential. Which is probably the opposite of what the 7.1 gt3 is/was."BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
For me this is a mind-set thing. Do you care more about trend setting and being seen as having the latest gadget...
There really is no comparison with the Metzger engine so it is pointless to even consider them is the same sentence. Purely the price point is enabling the comparison of the two.
Nobody is wrong is whatever of the 2 options they go for; this is an emotive choice of what best suits the individual needs of the purchaser. The cars are miles apart in most respects. Good to see the manual sticking around and hopefully an indication of the future ethos for the more trick Porsche models.
I'll stick with my old Metzger
There really is no comparison with the Metzger engine so it is pointless to even consider them is the same sentence. Purely the price point is enabling the comparison of the two.
Nobody is wrong is whatever of the 2 options they go for; this is an emotive choice of what best suits the individual needs of the purchaser. The cars are miles apart in most respects. Good to see the manual sticking around and hopefully an indication of the future ethos for the more trick Porsche models.
I'll stick with my old Metzger
pete a said:
The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success,
"BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
^This."BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
Some proper mentalists on PH
Spunk £80-85k on a chavved up Cayman with a chocolate 911 engine stuffed up it's chuff along with some further parts bin engineering courtesy of a few choice 991 GT3 bits.
Or :
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Hmmm, proper engine, some real Motorpsort lineage etc etc.
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