EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Dave200 said:
Mine is privately owned. Nothing to do with salary sacrifice.
So it is even worse for you then as you are paying for the depreciation.Just for arguments sake I bought a brand new GR86 last summer. In its first year it will lose 3-4k and will most likely be worth 26k at 3 years old. That works out at little over £200 a month in depreciation. Add £100 in fuel and it "costs" me £300 a month to run compared to an EV. At the end of it I have 26k in capital too.
I could have bought an MG4 trophy for a similar price and been well out of pocket by now. Most have lost 10-15k in their first year. By the time 3 years comes around I would be lucky to have 10k in my back pocket after selling.
BricktopST205 said:
So it is even worse for you then as you are paying for the depreciation.
Just for arguments sake I bought a brand new GR86 last summer. In its first year it will lose 3-4k and will most likely be worth 26k at 3 years old. That works out at little over £200 a month in depreciation. Add £100 in fuel and it "costs" me £300 a month to run compared to an EV. At the end of it I have 26k in capital too.
I could have bought an MG4 trophy for a similar price and been well out of pocket by now. Most have lost 10-15k in their first year. By the time 3 years comes around I would be lucky to have 10k in my back pocket after selling.
A GR86 is a limited production car. Ask the first gen Yaris GR how their prices went when the new model was announced. Supply and demand.Just for arguments sake I bought a brand new GR86 last summer. In its first year it will lose 3-4k and will most likely be worth 26k at 3 years old. That works out at little over £200 a month in depreciation. Add £100 in fuel and it "costs" me £300 a month to run compared to an EV. At the end of it I have 26k in capital too.
I could have bought an MG4 trophy for a similar price and been well out of pocket by now. Most have lost 10-15k in their first year. By the time 3 years comes around I would be lucky to have 10k in my back pocket after selling.
Just like when EV supply was constrained there were people getting the same money back, or more, for 12-24 month old cars.
Ankh87 said:
Point 12, electricity will go up in price suddenly as it already has done this. Many are £1000s in debt because of it. Some paying £300 per month for it. Basically my mortgage just for power.
Expect that to change once there's limited ICE available. Government needs to make money it's lost from fuel duty somehow. They aren't just going to go "oh well, I guess we'll just not think about all that billions we no longer get from this public".
Eh? Mine has come down since I had my EV - started at 10p/kWh and then dropped to 7p/kWh out of the blue last September. Household rate is only 22.6p/kWh too, so pretty reasonable. Expect that to change once there's limited ICE available. Government needs to make money it's lost from fuel duty somehow. They aren't just going to go "oh well, I guess we'll just not think about all that billions we no longer get from this public".
Fuel duty losses could be compensated by excess renewable electricity sales to our interconnected neighbours (including Germany from 2028) by the this becomes a problem.
GeneralBanter said:
GT9 said:
GeneralBanter said:
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
Edited to add.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
If anyone knows of a 13th add it.
Point 10, low probability, mostly likely will have saved that in fuel by the time it happens, if it happens.
Point 11, hmm, ICEs are not immune to crap residuals, good luck trying the sell a leggy diesel in 5-10 years time.
Point 12, we have been a captive audience to fuel prices for a century, what's going to change? If anything, once renewable electricity becomes the norm, fossil fuels will be taxed punitively. Eventually, running an ICE will become a choice for those who want to pay handsomely for it, e-fuelled or otherwise.
BricktopST205 said:
Dave200 said:
Mine is privately owned. Nothing to do with salary sacrifice.
So it is even worse for you then as you are paying for the depreciation.Just for arguments sake I bought a brand new GR86 last summer. In its first year it will lose 3-4k and will most likely be worth 26k at 3 years old. That works out at little over £200 a month in depreciation. Add £100 in fuel and it "costs" me £300 a month to run compared to an EV. At the end of it I have 26k in capital too.
I could have bought an MG4 trophy for a similar price and been well out of pocket by now. Most have lost 10-15k in their first year. By the time 3 years comes around I would be lucky to have 10k in my back pocket after selling.
Boxster5 said:
GeneralBanter said:
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
Edited to add.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
If anyone knows of a 13th add it.
OK we’re nothing like South Africa but we’re not looking great.
Have you been to South Africa?
Load shedding in SA is down to successive governments not investing in infrastructure to keep up with industrial demand after apartheid ended. Like on a massive scale, not investing.
We are nowhere near that here. Absolutely miles away and plenty of industry experts have said that the national grid is well equipped to deal with a ‘migration’ to EVs.
Meeting with a client on south coast tomorrow. About 200 miles to their office.
In an i4
Enough to get there. They have chargers. Based on the kw, I should get about 100 miles while in meeting
Stop at on way back at Banbury to use the Tesla chargers, catch up on emails, spray my boots and away home 20 minutes later.
In an i4
Enough to get there. They have chargers. Based on the kw, I should get about 100 miles while in meeting
Stop at on way back at Banbury to use the Tesla chargers, catch up on emails, spray my boots and away home 20 minutes later.
GeneralBanter said:
GT9 said:
GeneralBanter said:
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
Edited to add.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
If anyone knows of a 13th add it.
Point 10, low probability, mostly likely will have saved that in fuel by the time it happens, if it happens.
Point 11, hmm, ICEs are not immune to crap residuals, good luck trying the sell a leggy diesel in 5-10 years time.
Point 12, we have been a captive audience to fuel prices for a century, what's going to change? If anything, once renewable electricity becomes the norm, fossil fuels will be taxed punitively. Eventually, running an ICE will become a choice for those who want to pay handsomely for it, e-fuelled or otherwise.
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up its straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
Incredible isn't it
One of the main benefits for me in getting back into an EV is the convenience of not having to find and then stop at sodding petrol stations, pumping fuel in the cold and rain and being charged through the nose for the pleasure.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up its straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
Incredible isn't it
The ease and convenience of just reversing on the drive and spending 20 seconds plugging it in is enormous.
Muzzer79 said:
Boxster5 said:
GeneralBanter said:
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
Edited to add.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
If anyone knows of a 13th add it.
OK we’re nothing like South Africa but we’re not looking great.
Have you been to South Africa?
Load shedding in SA is down to successive governments not investing in infrastructure to keep up with industrial demand after apartheid ended. Like on a massive scale, not investing.
We are nowhere near that here. Absolutely miles away and plenty of industry experts have said that the national grid is well equipped to deal with a ‘migration’ to EVs.
I don’t buy the so called “industry experts” saying we’re well equipped for the migration - there is no long term planning in the UK and we’re effectively sleep walking to disaster. We need investment in nuclear yesterday.
Tony33 said:
ou can lease/PCP cars without salary sacrifice you know. Let the finance company take the hit on depreciation is they get the residuals all wrong. No risk, the monthlies are the same and hand it back at the end of term.
That ship has sailed a long time ago though a bog standard zero option M3 with zero deposit is £636 a month. 23 grand to own over 3 years with nothing to show for it. 
not heard that one before!GeneralBanter said:
You’d better hope the subsidies continue then so you don’t end up with the driving equivalent of a Betamax video player
'Betamax' suggests you think something else will replace EV.Please tell me you think it's hydrogen, that would make my day.
I'm not an EV owner btw.
BricktopST205 said:
Tony33 said:
ou can lease/PCP cars without salary sacrifice you know. Let the finance company take the hit on depreciation is they get the residuals all wrong. No risk, the monthlies are the same and hand it back at the end of term.
That ship has sailed a long time ago though a bog standard zero option M3 with zero deposit is £636 a month. 23 grand to own over 3 years with nothing to show for it. GT9 said:
'Betamax' suggests you think something else will replace EV.
Please tell me you think it's hydrogen, that would make my day.
I'm not an EV owner btw.
I think what he means is that ICE aka VHS will still continue. Please tell me you think it's hydrogen, that would make my day.
I'm not an EV owner btw.
The 2035 date will get pushed back another 5-10 years and so on and so forth. Trucks are decades away from being anything else than Diesel. Then you need the take up on top of that to replace them.
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