EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
monkfish1 said:
So, essentially you have borrowed the money.
Im at the £5k end of the market. Theres nothing useful, and im certainly not commiting to a ongoing monthly payment for a car< i wont repeat my use case/requirements for EV to work as ive done that before and dont wish to bore everyone with that again..
I note the poster who i responded to has not answered yet.
Hopefully not with a "should have worked harder" response.
I would have thought a Vauxhall Ampera would suit all angles for you.Im at the £5k end of the market. Theres nothing useful, and im certainly not commiting to a ongoing monthly payment for a car< i wont repeat my use case/requirements for EV to work as ive done that before and dont wish to bore everyone with that again..
I note the poster who i responded to has not answered yet.
Hopefully not with a "should have worked harder" response.
But otherwise, in some optics - yes, I have borrowed the money. In others, I have done what a person realistically should do in an emerging technological market; I have committed to only a partial investment for a depreciating asset.
I doesn't really make much difference to me if I'd paid the entire PCP up front and had £0/pcm for the next 48 months or so - I considered buying an entire vehicle, but didn't want to wake up one morning and find I'd lost £10k in equity. A finance company has decided to take on that risk for me, for a fee.
Fact of the matter is that by simply owning and needing to use a vehicle, you've already committed to a monthly payment in VED and fuel. In my case, there was a financial logic to proportioning some of that towards funding a better vehicle.
monkfish1 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Great monologue.
Does it change the fact that EVs are just better for a lot of people a lot of the time?
Please define "a lot"?Does it change the fact that EVs are just better for a lot of people a lot of the time?
It's going to be quite funny seeing all the WEF lunatics jumping out of their diesel 3 series and into Model 3's when they're down to £5k.
It'll be interesting to see how bothered about lithium mines, child labour and recyling they are then.
Edit. I hadn't actually seen you'd already mentioned £5k before I wrote that.
Brilliant
Please tell me you drive a 320d?
otolith said:
monkfish1 said:
How can you possibly make that claim? How can you possibly speak for the whole population? Or even a sizeable 
of it?
Its the definition of a ridiculous statement, so prevalent in this thread.
I guess its this type of thinking that takes place at government level, that dictates policy, that then, unsurprisingly hasnt resulted in the expected outcome. Because it was never based on a rational assesment of human behaviour. Or even their own behaviour.
Less than 5% of cars are EV. The other 95% by definition are some form of ICE/hydrid. Those owners are not driving EV. Like my wife. We would be buying an EV if it made sense. It doesnt. Because too many barriers.
I fail to see how 5% is "significant". What do you define as significant?
I'm not sure what your point is. You seem to be expecting something to have happened that nobody has tried to make happen. All that has occurred is that a target has been set for phase in of NEW vehicles being EV by 2035 with binding targets for the % of cars sold each year between now and then. Of course there aren't EVs for people running 5k used cars, why would there be? Nobody has tried to make users of 5k used cars buy a new EV. Nobody expects them to. 95% of cars are not EV because we have a large legacy fleet which will gradually be converted by natural wastage and an increasing proportion of the new sales being electric. of it?Its the definition of a ridiculous statement, so prevalent in this thread.
I guess its this type of thinking that takes place at government level, that dictates policy, that then, unsurprisingly hasnt resulted in the expected outcome. Because it was never based on a rational assesment of human behaviour. Or even their own behaviour.
Less than 5% of cars are EV. The other 95% by definition are some form of ICE/hydrid. Those owners are not driving EV. Like my wife. We would be buying an EV if it made sense. It doesnt. Because too many barriers.
I fail to see how 5% is "significant". What do you define as significant?
Less ridiculous statements would be good. More acknowledgement that low take up is becuase of the barriers to adoption.
Discussion around removing those barriers even better. Seems to be no hope of that. We must just believe harder.
cj2013 said:
monkfish1 said:
So, essentially you have borrowed the money.
Im at the £5k end of the market. Theres nothing useful, and im certainly not commiting to a ongoing monthly payment for a car< i wont repeat my use case/requirements for EV to work as ive done that before and dont wish to bore everyone with that again..
I note the poster who i responded to has not answered yet.
Hopefully not with a "should have worked harder" response.
I would have thought a Vauxhall Ampera would suit all angles for you.Im at the £5k end of the market. Theres nothing useful, and im certainly not commiting to a ongoing monthly payment for a car< i wont repeat my use case/requirements for EV to work as ive done that before and dont wish to bore everyone with that again..
I note the poster who i responded to has not answered yet.
Hopefully not with a "should have worked harder" response.
But otherwise, in some optics - yes, I have borrowed the money. In others, I have done what a person realistically should do in an emerging technological market; I have committed to only a partial investment for a depreciating asset.
I doesn't really make much difference to me if I'd paid the entire PCP up front and had £0/pcm for the next 48 months or so - I considered buying an entire vehicle, but didn't want to wake up one morning and find I'd lost £10k in equity. A finance company has decided to take on that risk for me, for a fee.
Fact of the matter is that by simply owning and needing to use a vehicle, you've already committed to a monthly payment in VED and fuel. In my case, there was a financial logic to proportioning some of that towards funding a better vehicle.
Is that becuase, it wasnt actually true?
ChocolateFrog said:
monkfish1 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Great monologue.
Does it change the fact that EVs are just better for a lot of people a lot of the time?
Please define "a lot"?Does it change the fact that EVs are just better for a lot of people a lot of the time?
Why does it even bother you? If you're the kind of person that always buys cheaper cars and you're wedded to ICE for whatever reason then if you're over say 45ish there's going to be a ready supply of ICE only vehicles in you're price range for the rest of your life, comfortably.
I agree that right now a £5k EV isn't going to be that great. I certainly wouldn't want a 60-70 mile range Leaf as my only car despite the fact it would still do nearly all the things I ask of a daily driver.
I agree that right now a £5k EV isn't going to be that great. I certainly wouldn't want a 60-70 mile range Leaf as my only car despite the fact it would still do nearly all the things I ask of a daily driver.
monkfish1 said:
He said there were solutions to not having £40k for an EV. I just asked what the solution was, which, i note, has not been forthcoming.
Borrowing money, id suggest is not a solution at all, just a different way of spending it.
Borrowing money, id suggest is not a solution at all, just a different way of spending it.
monkfish1 said:
You havent answered the question to your original statement, that there was a solution to my lack of £40k.
Is that becuase, it wasnt actually true?
Ignore the EV aspect here: how many people do you think are buying new (dealer new, not 'new to them') cars outright with money they already have? I don't have the stats, but I'm willing to speculate its a significant minority of people (considering leasing and SalSac to be another form of finance).Is that becuase, it wasnt actually true?
Equally, if you think you need £40k for an EV, you need £40k for an ICE. There's no large disparity any more.
If you can't afford £40k for a new car of any type, the answer is that you don't.
You can spend £10k and get an EV still in its battery and drivetrain warranty.
If you can't afford £10k, you can't realistically afford an ICE with any warranty at all.
If you then wanted to still buy an EV, there's quite a lot of Leafs/Zoes in the 2nd gen (e.g. more than 100 miles range) for a little above that.
If you don't want a £7k Zoe, then you compromise the need to buy something with cash.
People wouldn't be that stubborn with a house - it's the equivalent of living in a tent because you don't want to get a mortgage
Edited by cj2013 on Friday 3rd May 14:51
monkfish1 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
monkfish1 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Great monologue.
Does it change the fact that EVs are just better for a lot of people a lot of the time?
Please define "a lot"?Does it change the fact that EVs are just better for a lot of people a lot of the time?
Not sure what I wrote has anything to do with what you've written.
otolith said:
People not being able to afford new cars is not a barrier to adoption when all we are trying to achieve is to increase the proportion of new cars which are electric.
You not making a lot of sense.If the sale of new cars dwindles, lets say to 50% of current, thats an awful lot of old, dirty, inefficent cars remaing on the road for a lot longer than would otherwise be the case.
Surely the objective is reduce the number of ICE in favour of EV, not simpy to increase a percentage of new cars regardless of how many are sold.
cj2013 said:
monkfish1 said:
He said there were solutions to not having £40k for an EV. I just asked what the solution was, which, i note, has not been forthcoming.
Borrowing money, id suggest is not a solution at all, just a different way of spending it.
Borrowing money, id suggest is not a solution at all, just a different way of spending it.
monkfish1 said:
You havent answered the question to your original statement, that there was a solution to my lack of £40k.
Is that becuase, it wasnt actually true?
Ignore the EV aspect here: how many people do you think are buying new (dealer new, not 'new to them') cars outright with money they already have? I don't have the stats, but I'm willing to speculate its a significant minority of people (considering leasing and SalSac to be another form of finance).Is that becuase, it wasnt actually true?
Equally, if you think you need £40k for an EV, you need £40k for an ICE. There's no large disparity any more.
If you can't afford £40k for a new car of any type, the answer is that you don't.
You can spend £10k and get an EV still in its battery and drivetrain warranty.
If you can't afford £10k, you can't realistically afford an ICE with any warranty at all.
If you then wanted to still buy an EV, there's quite a lot of Leafs/Zoes in the 2nd gen (e.g. more than 100 miles range) for a little above that.
If you don't want a £7k Zoe, then you compromise the need to buy something with cash.
People wouldn't be that stubborn with a house - it's the equivalent of living in a tent because you don't want to get a mortgage
Edited by cj2013 on Friday 3rd May 14:51
Remeber, it was you that said there was a solution.
Glad we cleared that up.
monkfish1 said:
Ok, so you DONT have a solution to the lack of £40k.
Remeber, it was you that said there was a solution.
Glad we cleared that up.
You must surely be being obtuse.Remeber, it was you that said there was a solution.
Glad we cleared that up.
I don't have £40k either. I have never had £40k for a car.
BUT..... amazingly - I have a car. Almost like there was a solution!
You're coming across like either cognitively challenged, or just annoyed that someone's not going to gift you a £40k for free - as if you're above the challenges of normal people
Coxwain said:
Anyone buying a new or nearly new EV on finance needs their head looking at. With EV depreciation the way it's going, it's the ultimate definition of a liability and the total opposite of an asset. Spending several thousand each year to save a few hundreds in fuel. Bonkers logic!
Car finance typically negates the risk of EV depreciation (PCP, leasing etc - but not PCH or an outright loan).I don't see how "Anyone buying a new or nearly new EV" with cash instead is, somehow, not applicable to your statement. In fact, I'd suggest it is worse to buy outright not knowing how much it's going to be worth 3 years down the line
Coxwain said:
As much of the sane world builds a better future for its people, I suspect they are all laughing at our deranged Net Zero stupidity.
...and the insane world keeps its people oppressed and will overtake us as we give them money to offset our emissions due to missing targets we have set ourselves. They will also be laughing.... Coxwain said:
The main reason of our ill health here in the UK is our diet of mostly processed food and that the NHS has been chronically underfunded and mismanaged for years, meaning that it is no longer fit for purpose. But no one seems to give a st about that enough to do something about it do they? Reducing air pollution from it's already low levels is a red herring and will do the square route of F all in the circumstances.
Already low-levels? You're having a laugh.t about that enough to do something about it do they? Reducing air pollution from it's already low levels is a red herring and will do the square route of F all in the circumstances.Then combine with the inactivity because of the car-centric infrastructure and mindset, and you can see why it makes sense to move away from a consumption-based transport system..
Coxwain said:
Our energy security failings are as a direct result of not exploiting our own still considerable reserves of natural gas (fracking) and lack of investment in reliable nuclear power capacity.
Does our transport run on natural gas? cj2013 said:
monkfish1 said:
Ok, so you DONT have a solution to the lack of £40k.
Remeber, it was you that said there was a solution.
Glad we cleared that up.
You must surely be being obtuse.Remeber, it was you that said there was a solution.
Glad we cleared that up.
I don't have £40k either. I have never had £40k for a car.
BUT..... amazingly - I have a car. Almost like there was a solution!
You're coming across like either cognitively challenged, or just annoyed that someone's not going to gift you a £40k for free - as if you're above the challenges of normal people
You have confirmed that there isnt a "solution" now. Thats fine. The end.
monkfish1 said:
Like i said, its what YOu said. I didnt say it.
You have confirmed that there isnt a "solution" now. Thats fine. The end.
Ok, confirmed you're an idiot then. I don't mean that personally, but you keep repeating the same question and ignore the answer when it's been dissected, rephrased, and "ELI5" for you.You have confirmed that there isnt a "solution" now. Thats fine. The end.
Furthermore, your point (not matter how obtuse) is now irrelevant to this thread. Feel free to start a "New cars... no one has £40k for them!" thread, where it turns out, magically, the solution to "I don't have £40k for a car" is to not require it.
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