EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
KingGary said:
Muzzer79 said:
Don't waste your breath
PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.
They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.
I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.
Meanwhile, all the EV drivers have child bladders which require them to stop every 50 miles for a pee and an hour’s recharge. Soon services will start offering “Executive” EV-only lounges with Burger King waitress service.PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.
They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.
I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.
The average trip durations is slightly misleading…I reckon trips were either 5 to 20 minutes, or 3 ish hours.
740EVTORQUES said:
The idea of being able to make a 400 mile journey at the drop of a hat is the ultimate straw man. Most people would gladly give that up in return for never having to stop to refuel doing their daily commute.
I did in fact one get caught out needing to suddenly make a longish journey unplanned. I had not charged the car so what to do?
Drove to the nearest fast DC charger 5 minutes away (ironically at the local
Porsche dealership) and charged for 20 minutes and then I was on my way.
No problem at all and the benefits in daily use vastly outweigh this possibility.
Alll depends on what EV you have.I did in fact one get caught out needing to suddenly make a longish journey unplanned. I had not charged the car so what to do?
Drove to the nearest fast DC charger 5 minutes away (ironically at the local
Porsche dealership) and charged for 20 minutes and then I was on my way.
No problem at all and the benefits in daily use vastly outweigh this possibility.
Sounds like yours can charge relativity quickly and has a reasonable range.
The majority of people will be comparing something like a Qashqai with something like that Honda that was recently available on a cheap lease.
Real world range will be poor and charging slow.
While it might be better day to day (assuming you can charge at home), it’ll be annoying on weekend trips, holidays etc.
People place big value on convenience and while some of it is exaggerated in the press, it’s still an issue for most people.
Plenty of UK holidays don’t have destination charging, which compounds the issue.
cj2013 said:
But does a person really need to travel that far without a break? If it were the US, someone could make the argument for long distances without chargers or something (in the appalachia type areas), but the UK isn't a particularly big island.
Your missing the point In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
ACCYSTAN said:
Your missing the point
In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
if you can only charge on public chargers and have nothing else to do while your car is charging, then that's fair.In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
ACCYSTAN said:
Your missing the point
In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
But if you're using the van within the range of a single charge every day, then charging overnight you avoid wasting time going to a petrol station. That's far better productivity. And most EVs have a scheduled or remote pre-heat in winter to defrost.In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
If you take the Royal Mail as an example, that's quite a significant difference in productivity.
ACCYSTAN said:
Your missing the point
In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet, but you could always not buy the EV now and wait until such inconveniences are a thing of the past.In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
Just an idea, mind.
Ankh87 said:
I think it's the fact that when you do stop, you can just stop any where for a break. You don't need to stop and take a break at a specific location. So if you are happy to drive 4 hours without stopping, then you can do.
You don't need to think that I must stop off at X location which could be actually off your route. You could just pull over on a B road layby, go for the splash behind the bush. Put rubbish in the bin. Carry on the journey in a matter of minutes. No need to wait another X amount of charge to be sure you can carry on your journey. No need to worry if you might be waiting for a charger or even if they are working.
Exactly this You don't need to think that I must stop off at X location which could be actually off your route. You could just pull over on a B road layby, go for the splash behind the bush. Put rubbish in the bin. Carry on the journey in a matter of minutes. No need to wait another X amount of charge to be sure you can carry on your journey. No need to worry if you might be waiting for a charger or even if they are working.
The idea of having to find a charger and waiting like a lemon for the car to get back to 80% charge is ludicrous
ACCYSTAN said:
Your missing the point
In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
I spend about minute plugging in my EV at home to cover the same mileage as your diesel Berlingo. 30 seconds per charge, job done.In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,
I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced
How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?
GT9 said:
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet, but you could always not buy the EV now and wait until such inconveniences are a thing of the past.
Just an idea, mind.
Just to be clear, Just an idea, mind.
I drive a diesel Berlingo van for work ,I want a petrol or electric Toyota Proace city verso (a rebadged Berlingo with 10 year warranty) as my personal vehicle.
Unfortunately there are no decent range MPV style electrics, Tesla have no plans to make one.
You can pay over £70k for a luxury MPV electric with over 200 miles range, but that’s way out of my price range
SWoll said:
I spend about minute plugging in my EV at home to cover the same mileage as your diesel Berlingo. 30 seconds per charge, job done.
How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?
Show me an electric van that does 500 miles on a charge, infact show me an electric van that does 200 miles on a charge in the real world, the best one is meant to be the Maxus e deliver 9 which does 210 miles in the real world and why DPD have purchased a load of them.How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?
Just a shame they are £63k plus VAT to buy!
ACCYSTAN said:
SWoll said:
I spend about minute plugging in my EV at home to cover the same mileage as your diesel Berlingo. 30 seconds per charge, job done.
How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?
Show me an electric van that does 500 miles on a charge, infact show me an electric van that does 200 miles on a charge in the real world, the best one is meant to be the Maxus e deliver 9 which does 210 miles in the real world and why DPD have purchased a load of them.How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?
Just a shame they are £63k plus VAT to buy!
Would something like an MG5 or Tesla Model Y not be acceptable as a personal vehicle if you have access to a work van?
MG5 estate is horrible to drive, plus they devalue heavily in the first year like most EVs
Can’t use van for personal use, not insured.
I’ll stick with another petrol Berlingo MPV and hope that in 3 years time Citroen have improved the battery sufficiently to make the change more convenient
Can’t use van for personal use, not insured.
I’ll stick with another petrol Berlingo MPV and hope that in 3 years time Citroen have improved the battery sufficiently to make the change more convenient
This maybe sensationalist propaganda, some nasty looking things going on in the video though.
https://youtu.be/8HpkDUWAKFM?si=oIrrq_hZ5NO6FsVa
https://youtu.be/8HpkDUWAKFM?si=oIrrq_hZ5NO6FsVa
GT9 said:
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet, but you could always not buy the EV now and wait until such inconveniences are a thing of the past.
Just an idea, mind.
Indeed you can. Problem is, that what most people are doing.Just an idea, mind.
Which means reality will meet the ZEV mandate, which, correspondingly means an aritificial constriction of supply of new ICE vehicles.
Which will be "interesting" for want of a better expression.
I suspect the outcome will be exactly as above, less new vehicles sold overall, thus reducing the fleet renewal rate. The exact opposite of the intent.
monkfish1 said:
I suspect the outcome will be exactly as above, less new vehicles sold overall, thus reducing the fleet renewal rate. The exact opposite of the intent.
The intent is to increase the % of EVs in the pool.Putting more new ICE cars into the pool won't achieve it either...
Building pressure on manufacturers to offer the products people want and on buyers to compromise on perceived media-fuelled shortcomings (because that's what quite a bit of the resistance is, if we are being brutally honest) is only going to happen if the mandate targets are tough.
And yes there are also real shortcomings, some of which is nothing to do with the cars and all to do with charging them.
There's going to be elasticity between all of these factors, and hiatus events along the way.
Your post hints that we should be doing something different?
ACCYSTAN said:
Just to be clear,
I drive a diesel Berlingo van for work ,I want a petrol or electric Toyota Proace city verso (a rebadged Berlingo with 10 year warranty) as my personal vehicle.
Unfortunately there are no decent range MPV style electrics, Tesla have no plans to make one.
You can pay over £70k for a luxury MPV electric with over 200 miles range, but that’s way out of my price range
Vivaro-e 75kWh? Not sure how available it was in the UK.I drive a diesel Berlingo van for work ,I want a petrol or electric Toyota Proace city verso (a rebadged Berlingo with 10 year warranty) as my personal vehicle.
Unfortunately there are no decent range MPV style electrics, Tesla have no plans to make one.
You can pay over £70k for a luxury MPV electric with over 200 miles range, but that’s way out of my price range
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