How many races until Schumacher has/does one of his "stunts"

Yeah, I think Schumacher's probably all alone when it comes to Rascasse.

Well at least you're not coming across as being biased...

Also, because Vettel misjudged a move and collided with someone he's the new Schumacher? Or did Vettel purposely crash into Webber to win the championship? I'm confused as to where the similarity is.

And what has Monaco got to do with Jerez?

All in all, a pretty useless post imo.

There's a big difference in reinterpreting and ignoring evidence.

The lock that MSc put on in order to drive into JV was not, by any stretch of the imagination, corrective. It was much too hard. His wheels were getting towards full lock. You can suggest that JV was in error if, and it is a big if, he would have outbraked himself, but MSc was heading for the grass. There was no way that degree of lock was to correct anything. It was not lock 'put . . . back on'. It was much more than the original.

The incar footage shows it well, as does the head shot.

If he had pulled that amount of lock with JV not being there his rear tyres would have stepped out to the left and he would have spun. He was braking after all.

I'd actually fogotten he pleaded to it. Much too late of course to get any credibility. And he described it as a 'mistake'. From memory he didn't apologise.

You say there is no way we can agree but all I ask is for a reasonable explanation of the facts for me to consider a different interpretation. I've changed my mind over incidents that, at the time, emotion made obvious. However, wishful thinking is not really enough.

Another point, and an important one, is his previous and subsequent behaviour on track. Not being able to consider previous convictions is for courts which are not looking for justice. Here it is entirely reasonable.

We are, I think, asking if the duck made that quacking noise. You've got to say it is the prime suspect.

There might be an argument to say that JV put himself in that position hoping or expecting MS to do something stupid. I'd consider that with some logic behind it. But from what I read, that's not what you are saying. You seem to be suggesting that MSc was an innocent party just driving around as fast as he could go, paying attention to all the hazards and caught out in the end by what was, in essence, a missile.

It just doesn't add up.

The argument that JV was in some way culpable as well is arguable but that doesn't take away from the fact that MSc steered into him. And that is the critical point.

Alright then - Scheuy's full lock antics were the actions of a man who had lost control of his car at that point. Losing control of your car & then crashing it = up before the beak in my book.

So either he deliberatly tried removing his main Championship rival or was out of control at that point, either way the beak will have him. & did so.

It's no good either saying that Villeneuve had lost control of his car at that point - 2 wrongs don't = a right.

Whether the beak was influenced by Scheuy's antics with Hill in that other WDC deciding moment we cannot tell but at the point of the Villeneuve incident Schuey had given himself something of a reputation hadn't he?

It's not a matter if you agree or not, that is the ethics of motor-racing, the world over, since ever.


Actually it looks like Schumi wasn't have any issues at all. A bit of oversteer is his driving style.

The slow-mo replay at the end of that vid looks even more damning.

He does get a small amount of oversteer on turn-in but he has that controlled as the car straigtens for the regular line into the corner, and then JV is fully alongside. After that there is clearly a very deliberate move into JV. He can see JV is there, he turns in, the car goes toward JV, but he STILL keeps the steering lock on, and bang. The time he took to correct the overtsteer on the way in, is about 3 times the time he had to correct the steering lock when aimed at JV. Deliberate. Also the line he was aiming for, if not to hit JV, was to ride well over the inside kerb. No chance.

I'm also certain JV was going to make the corner on his own too, without some help from Schumi. He was going to do a hang-out - hang Schumi out to dry.

100% cheat. I couldn't be more convinced. Neither was anyone else judging the matter...

Still doesn't matter. If too far back the move probably gets blocked or they don't get enough of the car on the inside and the move fails. Too near to the corner and they out-brake themselves. Exactly when the overtaker decides to make this move does not EVER give the overtakee the right to ram them as they come alongside.

I said "well over" as in putting the belly of the car on the kerb and inside wheels fully on the grass. The trajectory of this is clear from any replay angle. I.e. it's not a move for the racing line, but a move to do something else...

JV doesn't have to turn-in. He's already arrived.

...and is why this is called a hang-out manoeuvre - hanging them out to dry. Schumi's only option is to back-off and give-up the inside of the corner. This is the right of the overtaker for gaining superior track position.

How can you close a door on someone who is already there? That's trapping them in it. You said that JV is already alongside. Jv is so alongside Schumi can see his car without even using his mirrors. This is what makes it a ramming incident.

Schumi knows how to avoid someone out-braking themselves or someone trying a hang-out, you let them go and/or Switch-back up the inside. The Proof that he knows this is when he did exactly that to Hamilton in China.

He rammed JV when he should've let him go. It's as obivous as it looks.

You are absolutely entitled to your flawed opinion

In summary, a self-obsessed man once said "I see your point, but I CHOOSE to disagree". A clever man once said "You're not entitled to your opinion. You're only entitled to your INFORMED opinion".

But if you're going to mis-use a mis-understanding of empiricism to argue a point and refuse to admit it's the wrong side of the fence to choose to sit, even when the whole world says so, and you want to agree to disagree, what about fate? : JV didn't mess the move up, because it worked. Schumi did mess the move up, because it didn't work.

I'd like to see him apologise for that, it was totally uncalled for

Yup...I'm pro-Schumi but that was beyond horrible. I hope he sees a race ban for that.