How many races until Schumacher has/does one of his "stunts"

Gotta agree with everything the guy says, I think there's a large case of rose-tinted glasses when discussing some of the "defensive" driving of the past.

i think that's a load of cobblers. i've been watching f1 since well before Berger was part of it and i don't recall seeing anything like that which Berger talks about.

He's not lying, he's just wrong. Plenty of far greater drivers have said the complete opposite to what he's said, there's been a complete queue of them.

I don't recall Jones and Villeneuve ever trying to shove each other into a wall and they were both as hard as they came.

Tbh i see the driving of MS in Hungary as more of incompetence than anything else. I think i'm having to come to accept that Schumi doesn't have it anymore.

IMHO this discussion has run its course. It was exciting while it lasted, but the entire arguments are slowly getting old.

- It was dangerous.
- It was close.
- It gave us a lot to talk about.
- It was penalised by the FIA.

What's more to say? I'm glad it happend (with no consequences) and lets face it, this is racing afterall, done in the heat of a moment. I'd rather see Michael driving as aggressive as he is than to have him make room for anyone who seems to be quicker.

This is why I love watching Hamilton. He's insanely quick and one of the more aggresive drivers on the track.

So were all the other guys, inc Niki Lauda and Mika Hakkinen.

Berger was ok as a driver, but something of a journeyman.

This, to me is the crux of the entire incident. If MS had made one clear move towards the pitwall when Rubens was behind him I would have no problem with where he ended up positioning his car. Upon reviewing the incident you can see that he makes sure that Rubens has committed to the inside line and has not got many options left. He accomplishes this by a gradual drift initially which becomes sharper and sharper the further they are down the pit straight.

As far as I'm concerned this is not 'defending' your position, this is waiting until the guy behind you has no choice but to continue and come pretty much as close as is humanly possible to crashing into the pitwall, or back out entirely.

That is not 'defending' your position. That is trying to sucker a driver into making a move, and then trying to indimidate him out of it, and in a very dangerous spot. I my opinion, it was totally premeditated and Schumacher wanted RB to get his nose alongside before he made a big movement because he then thought he could scare him out of the move. If he had done it earlier, RB could have switched sides and had a go round the outside.

I'm pretty disgusted. To me it was a move of desperation.

Easy, he's human. See the pro-Schmacker posts in this thread to see how easy that is...

As someone who has every single full race on his PC from 1980-present, which I often watch as my bedtime knockout material, there are no such wall useage moves. Berger is categorically and literally wrong. Hard moves, plenty. Using a wall, no (apart from the one Senna incident).

Perhaps we should listen to Berger. He knows all about putting people into the pitwall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj7TewU5AVc

That said, I don't think it was deliberate so much as inept.

This was the one time I couldn't understand where Hunt was coming from. I know he and Patrese had a history but Berger slowed in front of a faster car. What did he expect? That's if he gave any thought to it of course.

I remember him taking off another car later on in a race. Utterly his fault, pure and simple. His excuse was that he didn't expect anyone to overtake for 10th place. After all, what was the point. Sort of summed him up for me.

Yeah, fair enough. He did learn which is a positive of course.

But he was no racer. He switched off at times and would find it difficult to empathise with Barrichello trying to overtake another car in such circs. He'd have backed off and coasted to the flag.

One thing which came up after I posted the bit above: Hunt was outrageous in his comments about Patrese being put into the wall. He blamed him and quite visciously. I know he also blamed him for Peterson's death intially but he just refused to accept the result of the enquiry afterwards. He never let it rest. He was always having digs at him. Put me off him a bit. Shame there weren't forums around then.

Could be another wall incident but sadly before my time and a total lack of video evidence makes that impossible to judge in retrospect. Sounded like a racing incident given the total pile-up including Patrese, that followed. Not really deliberate measured tactics as per Schmacker?

IMO Schumi really and clearly is in a different league.