Another Porsche Boxster engine failure..
Discussion
paultje said:
I think that it is outragious to expect to 'need' a warranty on an expensive car of that age.
The car is *eight* years old FFS - that's the economic life of many cars these days.IIRC Porsche only offer the warranty up to 10 years so the car wasn't far away from not even qualifying.
eddiebhoy said:
paultje said:
I think that it is outragious to expect to 'need' a warranty on an expensive car of that age.
Absolutely!! - nail on the head. Go to any Audi or BMW forum and ask how many owners of high performance cars from these marques have extended warranties and I bet it's a very low number - same question on here I suspect would yield a significantly higher number.The vast majority of Audis/BMWs are cooking diesels/family cars/runabouts. And even they occasionally give a nightmare experience.
Porsche,in my opinion and experience, having owned most major makes, including BMW (2 right now), MB and Audi are no better or worse.
One significant point. We are talking about a high performance sports car that is 8 years old. What's its history? 1 careful owner? I doubt it.
The Porsche brand is famous for its reliability. People expect Ferrari's to be expensive to run, but Porsche's are fabled as everyday supercars. So it's not really surprising that many people believe the hype.
I think they're probably better than most equivalent supercars, but the watercooled engine (and their unwillingness to sell spare parts for it) has led to a problem. Porsche's aren't as reliable as people expect them to be.
I understand from these forums that Merc and BMW were more helpful when their customers had similar problems, not sure if that's true. But I'd say the Boxster/996 engine is a bit of a ticking timebomb.
Anyone ever thought of sticking something else in there? Not easy I know but if someone works out how to stick a Subaru engine in, they'll be onto a real moneyspinner. There are usually around 500 old Boxsters for sale on Autotrader...
I think they're probably better than most equivalent supercars, but the watercooled engine (and their unwillingness to sell spare parts for it) has led to a problem. Porsche's aren't as reliable as people expect them to be.
I understand from these forums that Merc and BMW were more helpful when their customers had similar problems, not sure if that's true. But I'd say the Boxster/996 engine is a bit of a ticking timebomb.
Anyone ever thought of sticking something else in there? Not easy I know but if someone works out how to stick a Subaru engine in, they'll be onto a real moneyspinner. There are usually around 500 old Boxsters for sale on Autotrader...
As i said, i did months of research before buying the car and i never heard anything about any other problem than the RMS.
still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty, see my last post. You will also never persuade me the true reason you took one out was because you would do on any performance car. You only have after seein so many problems such as mine.
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldnt buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude. Your not clever, people dont envy you, you are blatantly an image obsessed 'try hard'
still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty, see my last post. You will also never persuade me the true reason you took one out was because you would do on any performance car. You only have after seein so many problems such as mine.
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldnt buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude. Your not clever, people dont envy you, you are blatantly an image obsessed 'try hard'
newboxsterS said:
As i said, i did months of research before buying the car and i never heard anything about any other problem than the RMS.
still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty, see my last post. You will also never persuade me the true reason you took one out was because you would do on any performance car. You only have after seein so many problems such as mine.
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldnt buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude. Your not clever, people dont envy you, you are blatantly an image obsessed 'try hard'
That's not aimed at me, is it? If so, re-read my posts.still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty, see my last post. You will also never persuade me the true reason you took one out was because you would do on any performance car. You only have after seein so many problems such as mine.
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldnt buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude. Your not clever, people dont envy you, you are blatantly an image obsessed 'try hard'
I thought I might buy a Boxster but then looked at the cost of engine replacement, and googled things like 'Boxster engine failure' just because I wanted to know the worst case scenario.
I'm sorry you didn't.
I think it's a shame Porsche designed a relatively fragile engine. I say relatively, that's relative to their previous engines, not their competitors (whose engines are far worse IMO).
What's a real shame, I think, is that they don't fix them under 'goodwill' or at least supply parts to allow them to be fixed.
This is going to happen a lot more in the future...
spikeyhead said:
It amazes me that people buy any high value car without understanding the potential costs involved and then whinge about it afterwards.
What crap. Perfectly normal to expect your engine to go bang is it? This is not some exotic italian but an everyday car. The output per litre is hardly pushing the boundries of modern technology. In context a 3.0 Lexus has the same output per litre as a 986S. Deva Link said:
The car is *eight* years old FFS - that's the economic life of many cars these days.
This could count as one of the most stupid posts ever.Dont beat about the bush - say what you're thinkin 
In some ways all these comments are correct. A warranty (insurance policy) is only value for money if you need to make a claim.
I do disagree with Porsche's 2 year warranty when plenty of other manufacturers are offering 3 - 5 years.
It's as though they're saying "we know our cars are unreliable so we can only guarantee they wont break for 2 years"!!
When my GT3 is 2 years old next March i'll be in a real dilemma over whether to get an extended warranty - something i've never had before - but can i take the risk?? How much would a new/refurbed GT3 engine cost £££££!!
Having said that, aren't these engines built by the Motorsport division of Porsche and therefore "could" be near bullet-proof?
Here's hoping...
In some ways all these comments are correct. A warranty (insurance policy) is only value for money if you need to make a claim.
I do disagree with Porsche's 2 year warranty when plenty of other manufacturers are offering 3 - 5 years.
It's as though they're saying "we know our cars are unreliable so we can only guarantee they wont break for 2 years"!!
When my GT3 is 2 years old next March i'll be in a real dilemma over whether to get an extended warranty - something i've never had before - but can i take the risk?? How much would a new/refurbed GT3 engine cost £££££!!
Having said that, aren't these engines built by the Motorsport division of Porsche and therefore "could" be near bullet-proof?
Here's hoping...
Gunny Sergeant D said:
spikeyhead said:
It amazes me that people buy any high value car without understanding the potential costs involved and then whinge about it afterwards.
What crap. Perfectly normal to expect your engine to go bang is it? This is not some exotic italian but an everyday car. The output per litre is hardly pushing the boundries of modern technology. In context a 3.0 Lexus has the same output per litre as a 986S. Its not as if every water cooled Porsche engine goes bang. I'd guess at only a very few percent a year do, so its a gamble whether to take out a warranty or not but it should really be an informed decision, not one taken because you believe that Porsches are reliable.
newboxsterS said:
As i said, i did months of research before buying the car and i never heard anything about any other problem than the RMS.
still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
You did months of research but didn't even look on the forums???still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
newboxsterS said:
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty..
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldn't buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude.
It sounds like you are the one with the arrogant attitude. Whilst I appreciate you are not happy, I think you need to face upto the fact that you only have yourself to blame. The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldn't buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude.
You decided to take a calculated risk, purchasing an 8 year old performance car and not insuring yourself against anything that might go wrong. I cant understand why you think you now have the right to start black mailing the manufacture to bail you out?
Personally I think your attitude stinks and is indicative of society in general and the blame culture we seem to find ourselves in. Take some responsibility for the fact that you made a bad decision, learn from it and get on with you life.
1 said:
newboxsterS said:
As i said, i did months of research before buying the car and i never heard anything about any other problem than the RMS.
still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
You did months of research but didn't even look on the forums???still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
newboxsterS said:
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty..
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldn't buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude.
It sounds like you are the one with the arrogant attitude. Whilst I appreciate you are not happy, I think you need to face upto the fact that you only have yourself to blame. The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldn't buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude.
You decided to take a calculated risk, purchasing an 8 year old performance car and not insuring yourself against anything that might go wrong. I cant understand why you think you now have the right to start black mailing the manufacture to bail you out?
Personally I think your attitude stinks and is indicative of society in general and the blame culture we seem to find ourselves in. Take some responsibility for the fact that you made a bad decision, learn from it and get on with you life.
ks as well as his face while he's down.The company I work for has the contract to move all the Porsche (warranty) parts returns. They're gathered from all over the UK and trunked to Porsche GB in Reading, the amount of assorted complete engines I've taken back there is shockng!
Edited by LikesBikes on Monday 28th July 01:22
Most of you defending Porsche's engine "reliability" history are in denial.
I trust that those of you defending Porsche have all got OPC warranties? If so, you've made the OP's point very well. You see, the OPC warranty proves that you're only insured for an engine failure that you suspect is more likely to happen than your being struck by lightning when standing under a tree during a thunderstorm. Look up the probabilities and compare with Porsche's production numbers for the M96 engine, and the kindest estimates (to Porsche) from the dataset that is a sticky on this forum.
I bet none of you would go stand in a field, under a tree, during an electrical storm. Just think: You have a better chance of surviving that act of stupidity than you have of running an M96 engine without suffering a serious failure. Every Porsche with the M96 apparently offers you a failure rate worse than being struck by lightning when you especially expose yourself to that lightning risk. Great, eh?
Yes the OP took a chance. Yes his research may have been different to yours. He fell on the wrong side of his bet, but he made a bet based on a perception of a manufacturer's brand (and its promise of reliability). Yet you offer salt to his wounds, and you meanwhile blame everyone except the manufacturer.
Nice.
Personally, I think it is a disgrace that any so-called German engineered vehicle cannot manage 100k plus miles without a total failure. Almost everyone else seems to manage such achievements consistently.
To the OP, you have my sympathies. If you put up the website, be factual and choose your links carefully. Porsche can do nothing to you if you remain factual. The people (probably on here) with most to worry about are those with M96 engined Porsches who don't want to see their residuals drop at a faster pace.
edited to clarify my third paragraph which was written in haste
I trust that those of you defending Porsche have all got OPC warranties? If so, you've made the OP's point very well. You see, the OPC warranty proves that you're only insured for an engine failure that you suspect is more likely to happen than your being struck by lightning when standing under a tree during a thunderstorm. Look up the probabilities and compare with Porsche's production numbers for the M96 engine, and the kindest estimates (to Porsche) from the dataset that is a sticky on this forum.
I bet none of you would go stand in a field, under a tree, during an electrical storm. Just think: You have a better chance of surviving that act of stupidity than you have of running an M96 engine without suffering a serious failure. Every Porsche with the M96 apparently offers you a failure rate worse than being struck by lightning when you especially expose yourself to that lightning risk. Great, eh?
Yes the OP took a chance. Yes his research may have been different to yours. He fell on the wrong side of his bet, but he made a bet based on a perception of a manufacturer's brand (and its promise of reliability). Yet you offer salt to his wounds, and you meanwhile blame everyone except the manufacturer.
Nice.
Personally, I think it is a disgrace that any so-called German engineered vehicle cannot manage 100k plus miles without a total failure. Almost everyone else seems to manage such achievements consistently.
To the OP, you have my sympathies. If you put up the website, be factual and choose your links carefully. Porsche can do nothing to you if you remain factual. The people (probably on here) with most to worry about are those with M96 engined Porsches who don't want to see their residuals drop at a faster pace.
edited to clarify my third paragraph which was written in haste
Edited by bcnrml on Monday 28th July 19:32
newboxsterS said:
As i said, i did months of research before buying the car and i never heard anything about any other problem than the RMS.
still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty, see my last post. You will also never persuade me the true reason you took one out was because you would do on any performance car. You only have after seein so many problems such as mine.
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldnt buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude. Your not clever, people dont envy you, you are blatantly an image obsessed 'try hard'
Sorry but that's nonsense. I've run a succession of BMWs and then a Porsche for the last seven years in total, and I've ALWAYS had the warranty. Because I don't want to end up like you have.still now, you only ever hear of the Probs on forums, i guess any other car related sites are too scared of the legal implications to run anything useful.
no one will ever persuade me i should have taken a warranty, see my last post. You will also never persuade me the true reason you took one out was because you would do on any performance car. You only have after seein so many problems such as mine.
The stuck up attitude of 'well i have a warranty so should you, , stop whining, its an old car anyway and you shouldnt buy what you cant afford' is arrogant and just shows the type of person you are. You should be ashamed of that attitude. Your not clever, people dont envy you, you are blatantly an image obsessed 'try hard'
As for not seeting anything about engine problems, did you miss this?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Twenty six pages and a STICKY FFSso it's always at the top of the list. Google for 996 engine failure and this is the first thing you see! It has all engine failure statistics right there.
At the end of the day, I bought a car I can't afford really. I bought my 911 from Porsche and if the engine blew (or indeed the gearbox broke) I'd be utterly and completely financially ruined. So therefore I spend £15 a week on the warranty to insure me against it.
I am genuinely very sorry to hear you've got a problem, but quite why you think that Porsche should gift you a new engine on an eight year old car which you didn't even buy from them is a mystery to me.
How many miles has the car done? If it does indeed have a full Porsche history then they might possibly give you a contribution under goodwill, but they're not obliged to give you anything at all. People like us with our nine year old high mileage cheapies mean NOTHING to Porsche unless we pay them for warranties and pay their expensive service costs.
What they will say is that you could have spent a little more and bought a car from their dealer network. If you had, then you'd have your new engine in a crate on the way over by now.
Sorry, you took a risk and it didn't pay off. No such thing as a cheap Porsche - you pay upfront or you risk paying later.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Monday 28th July 09:41
A lot of sensible comments and advice on here and various opinions - some of which are spot on - but the one thing that I think has been missing is that you all seem to accept the engine is finished when a simple ball bearing failure occurs. The comments are all based around an acceptance that a simple little bearing in the engine has condemned it to that great collector of junk engines in the sky and that either a good used or brand new replacement engine is the only way out.
I don't know if it is main agent labour rates or the general decline in technician skill levels that has led to these being thought of as the only options, but it is not so expensive to replace the bearing and rebuild the engine and in days gone by - no one would have thought twice about fixing them for such minor problems. Indeed if you had a small bearing fail in an engine a few years ago - you would have been thought of as completely mad to suggest the only option was another engine.
With the opportunity to replace a few other weak but inexpensive parts at the same time - and costing much less than a new engine (and much better than a used one for similar money) to fix the actual problem should always be considered.
Baz
I don't know if it is main agent labour rates or the general decline in technician skill levels that has led to these being thought of as the only options, but it is not so expensive to replace the bearing and rebuild the engine and in days gone by - no one would have thought twice about fixing them for such minor problems. Indeed if you had a small bearing fail in an engine a few years ago - you would have been thought of as completely mad to suggest the only option was another engine.
With the opportunity to replace a few other weak but inexpensive parts at the same time - and costing much less than a new engine (and much better than a used one for similar money) to fix the actual problem should always be considered.
Baz
According to hartech the boxster (2.7 and 3.2) engine is less likely to suffer from cracked block because it is thicker. The intemediate shaft bearing is however weak. From a preventative perspective it would be sensible to change the shaft bearing to Hartech's design when having the clutch renewed. That should take away the inherent weakness in the engine....
edited to say..I'd even argue that it is money better spent than on the warranty as most other bits that go wrong are manageable to afford from onr's own pocket.
edited to say..I'd even argue that it is money better spent than on the warranty as most other bits that go wrong are manageable to afford from onr's own pocket.
Edited by Paracetamol on Monday 28th July 09:51
Edited by Paracetamol on Monday 28th July 11:29
Bad luck with the Boxster. I have a GT3 Mk1 with no warranty. That is my decision for now, and although it may change in the future you would never catch me on here moaning about it if it went wrong. By all means start a website, but do it with integrity and without emotion. Less talk and more do please. Once its done you can advertise it on here so that others may take part if they choose.
You made a bad decision, I may have made one for now - but lets just leave it at that. Lets try to keep our personal pride intact - even if you have tried to shred yours publicly.
(p.s. I think it is apalling if it is proven that a large percentage of M96 engines have had problems, but this is a separate issue to what I have posted on).
I would chat to Hartech.....IMHO
You made a bad decision, I may have made one for now - but lets just leave it at that. Lets try to keep our personal pride intact - even if you have tried to shred yours publicly.
(p.s. I think it is apalling if it is proven that a large percentage of M96 engines have had problems, but this is a separate issue to what I have posted on).
I would chat to Hartech.....IMHO
Edited by christer on Monday 28th July 09:54
Edited by christer on Monday 28th July 09:55
Vesuvius 996 said:
Sorry but that's nonsense. I've run a succession of BMWs and then a Porsche for the last seven years in total, and I've ALWAYS had the warranty. Because I don't want to end up like you have.
As for not seeting anything about engine problems, did you miss this?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Twenty six pages and a STICKY FFSso it's always at the top of the list. Google for 996 engine failure and this is the first thing you see! It has all engine failure statistics right there.
At the end of the day, I bought a car I can't afford really. I bought my 911 from Porsche and if the engine blew (or indeed the gearbox broke) I'd be utterly and completely financially ruined. So therefore I spend £15 a week on the warranty to insure me against it.
I am genuinely very sorry to hear you've got a problem, but quite why you think that Porsche should gift you a new engine on an eight year old car which you didn't even buy from them is a mystery to me.
How many miles has the car done? If it does indeed have a full Porsche history then they might possibly give you a contribution under goodwill, but they're not obliged to give you anything at all. People like us with our nine year old high mileage cheapies mean NOTHING to Porsche unless we pay them for warranties and pay their expensive service costs.
What they will say is that you could have spent a little more and bought a car from their dealer network. If you had, then you'd have your new engine in a crate on the way over by now.
Sorry, you took a risk and it didn't pay off. No such thing as a cheap Porsche - you pay upfront or you risk paying later.
+1As for not seeting anything about engine problems, did you miss this?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Twenty six pages and a STICKY FFSso it's always at the top of the list. Google for 996 engine failure and this is the first thing you see! It has all engine failure statistics right there.
At the end of the day, I bought a car I can't afford really. I bought my 911 from Porsche and if the engine blew (or indeed the gearbox broke) I'd be utterly and completely financially ruined. So therefore I spend £15 a week on the warranty to insure me against it.
I am genuinely very sorry to hear you've got a problem, but quite why you think that Porsche should gift you a new engine on an eight year old car which you didn't even buy from them is a mystery to me.
How many miles has the car done? If it does indeed have a full Porsche history then they might possibly give you a contribution under goodwill, but they're not obliged to give you anything at all. People like us with our nine year old high mileage cheapies mean NOTHING to Porsche unless we pay them for warranties and pay their expensive service costs.
What they will say is that you could have spent a little more and bought a car from their dealer network. If you had, then you'd have your new engine in a crate on the way over by now.
Sorry, you took a risk and it didn't pay off. No such thing as a cheap Porsche - you pay upfront or you risk paying later.
I can understant the OP being annoyed. A blown-up engine (and a pretty mundane one for that matter, not a race engine) from what is perceived as a "quality/premium" manufacturer is more than frustrating. I'd pe p*ssed off as well as this just should not happen (but, well, it does...)
However, I have to agree with the general sentiment in the other posts. The OP did NINE months of research but did not see any posts on engine problems and the advice to take out a warranty to be on the safe side as about any second post on here suggests (and all but the ones on bringing your own oil from Ves
). In that case I wonder what type of reserach the OP has actually done.
Furthermore, my OPC puts some money from his used car sales into an own fund to cover goodwill payments that go well beyond Porsche's standard. That's what you don't get when buying privately. The OP took a (calculated) risk, simple as that.
However, I have to agree with the general sentiment in the other posts. The OP did NINE months of research but did not see any posts on engine problems and the advice to take out a warranty to be on the safe side as about any second post on here suggests (and all but the ones on bringing your own oil from Ves
). In that case I wonder what type of reserach the OP has actually done.Furthermore, my OPC puts some money from his used car sales into an own fund to cover goodwill payments that go well beyond Porsche's standard. That's what you don't get when buying privately. The OP took a (calculated) risk, simple as that.
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