DPFs. More hassle than they're worth?
Discussion
stevemcs said:
Nothing wrong with DPF's they work. You will find something else is stopping it, you need to scan for fault codes and look at live data. Continuing to drive it will only cause further issues.
Have error codes:• P2002 - Diesel Particulate Filter Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1
• P2463 - Diesel Particulate Filter Restriction - Soot Accumulation
No other error codes
BunkMoreland said:
THIS! 1000 times this!
Diesel in general is a fine fuel for a specific purpose. And that purpose is NOT a passenger car!
Makes me laugh how many people buy the wrong car for their needs because they get suckered in by "high mpg" figures (which we all know are not even close to real world) And seem to forget that currently diesel is 10p a litre more than petrol so even if your getting 45mpg. Cost wise its equivalent to 35mpg in a petrol car. AND you don't have DPF, AdBlue and all the other emissions crap that goes wrong!
Oh and the answer for a DPF regen is NOT a "spirited drive" (despite what the PH big dick swingers think) Its a relatively stable 50-60mph for a good 30-60mins! Caining it makes the problem worse!
This is what confuses me a bit. Some say low RPM and minimal throttle will not help, others say booting it won't help. Which is the right answer?Diesel in general is a fine fuel for a specific purpose. And that purpose is NOT a passenger car!
Makes me laugh how many people buy the wrong car for their needs because they get suckered in by "high mpg" figures (which we all know are not even close to real world) And seem to forget that currently diesel is 10p a litre more than petrol so even if your getting 45mpg. Cost wise its equivalent to 35mpg in a petrol car. AND you don't have DPF, AdBlue and all the other emissions crap that goes wrong!
Oh and the answer for a DPF regen is NOT a "spirited drive" (despite what the PH big dick swingers think) Its a relatively stable 50-60mph for a good 30-60mins! Caining it makes the problem worse!
Surely a 500 mile trip on the motorway is optimal conditions. However RPM is kept low and throttle input mostly low.
Skyrocket21 said:
I would guess a faulty pressure sensor, get yourself the VAG DPF app on android and a ELM327 bluetooth reader / dongle "vgate" ones work well, on the app you have to select the correct engine code, it will tell you everything happening on an active dpf regen, yes on VAG cars they will regen at 1500 rpm, even on idle, because it's the temperature of the DPF that matters, when it hits over 600c the regen will happen quickly, it does this by adding extra diesel called post injection, when you can also see grey smoke when you stop, passive regen happens under certain parameters, usually on a dual carriageway. (They will also regen pootling around town, you'll see the smoke when you stop and set off again)
Thrashing it will be counter productive to a regen, because it will slow it down, or it will stop, or lifting your foot off the throttle, on a VAG common rail tdi, the best method I've discovered after doing 100's is 4th gear at about 60 mph the rpm's will be about 2000 to 2200, you can thrash it a little to get it hotter, then aim for a hill at that speed, once it hits 600 plus c on the dpf the regen happens quickly, probably 10-12 mins.
It's not a brilliant idea to switch them off during an active regen because of the increased risk of fuel dilution, people do that everyday.
Only codes I've found are P2002 and P2463. Would a dodgy pressure sensor throw up a specific fault code? I guess it could possibly just giving the wrong value and making the car believe it doesn't need to regen.Thrashing it will be counter productive to a regen, because it will slow it down, or it will stop, or lifting your foot off the throttle, on a VAG common rail tdi, the best method I've discovered after doing 100's is 4th gear at about 60 mph the rpm's will be about 2000 to 2200, you can thrash it a little to get it hotter, then aim for a hill at that speed, once it hits 600 plus c on the dpf the regen happens quickly, probably 10-12 mins.
It's not a brilliant idea to switch them off during an active regen because of the increased risk of fuel dilution, people do that everyday.
aturnick54 said:
This is what confuses me a bit. Some say low RPM and minimal throttle will not help, others say booting it won't help. Which is the right answer?
Surely a 500 mile trip on the motorway is optimal conditions. However RPM is kept low and throttle input mostly low.
When a car is doing a regen. The car raises the exhaust gas temperature. This heat is then used to burn off the "soot" in the DPF. Reducing it to acceptable level. The by product of that process is "Ash" which it cannot remove and thus in time every DPF will need replacing. Or removing and cleaning with the ash disposed off correctly and not just washed down the drain like a idiot! Surely a 500 mile trip on the motorway is optimal conditions. However RPM is kept low and throttle input mostly low.
(I do wonder if the people that remove their DPFs and adblue systems also complain about water companies dumping raw sewage into public rivers and the sea
)The manufacturer diag computer will have either an automated way or a manual way of doing this in a workshop. Automated, the car sits still and raises its idle to 1500-2000 until it decides all the soot is burnt off. (It will get VERY hot due to lack of airflow) Manual will involve a Tech driving on a motorway/dual carriageway at 50-60mph to do the same. That can take an hour or 2.
Caining a car throws in more fuel which creates soot faster than the higher exhaust gas temps can burn it off. So it is counter productive. As you say a relatively low rpm, long period is the fastest way to carry out a regen. The real world problem is that lots and lots of diesel drivers don't do that sort of driving. Or when they do they stop the car before the regen is fully carried out
robertfleckney said:
Most vehicles with DPFs start a regen once up to temperature. Could this be a thermostat/temp sensor issue? Perhaps the ECU doesn’t realise the car is at the correct temperature.
Pressure sensor has been mentioned a few times.Even when I forced a regen the soot level was increasing
Those codes are just telling you that it's blocking up, a restriction is happening, I'm guessing you have the exhaust symbol dpf light on the dashboard, that's the last stage before it'll go into limp mode and you'll be in a vw garage. Your best bet is to get it to a trusted VAG specialist with the correct equipment, they'll be looking at the differential pressure etc, basically it's not working because of a fault, the easiest one to change is the pressure sensor, it's the plastic rectangular shaped thing with a pipe to nowhere, assuming it's the same on a 3.0 tdi. There's a point whereby it won't regen without specialist equipment as a safety measure, not sure if 31 grams is there or not.
You need to get it to a VAG specialist who know the car, personally not keen on the mobile DPF specialists, when it's working, they can perform a forced regen with their equipment. Throwing in a can of archoil AR6400-D will help clear it when it's fixed, it won't solve anything.
You need to get it to a VAG specialist who know the car, personally not keen on the mobile DPF specialists, when it's working, they can perform a forced regen with their equipment. Throwing in a can of archoil AR6400-D will help clear it when it's fixed, it won't solve anything.
BunkMoreland said:
(I do wonder if the people that remove their DPFs and adblue systems also complain about water companies dumping raw sewage into public rivers and the sea )
Or indeed drive for pleasure? )Save us the sanctimonious hogwash, this is Pistonheads, it's mass consumption grand central.
I've removed an adblue system, on a vehicle just over 2 years old, 2 months out of warranty, a vehicle which only does long journeys. Adblue systems are causing big difficulties on commercial vehicles from everything I've heard and seen.
Adblue systems require millions of tons of product to be produced and shipped around the world. It causes millions of plastic containers to be produced and then dumped. Neither you me or anyone can possibly know whether there's a net reduction of emissions or not. We are told tailpipe emissions are cleaner but even after all this time, MOT emissions tests have barely progressed.
All we know about vehicular emissions is what the motor industry tells us, the industry that has shown to possibly be the most untrustworthy to grace the planet.
Having said this, I think diesel has had its day, I consider new diesel cars now like EVs, ie they can be great, but you don't want to own one, just pay the PCP/salary sacrifice or whatever for 3 years, and then pass it on.
D4rez said:
The answer is.. definitely don’t remove it. Easy way to get slapped with a big fine (£1k) and forced to rectify or scrap the car…
Now this is so untrue so why say it?Unless it's been done very badly, a car with a dpf removed will go through it's MOT year after year, and if you're thinking of roadside checks, the odds are so minimal you wouldn't be able to express the odds.
It is NOT an easy way to get slapped with a big fine, you have simply made that up.
Morals? We're petrolheads, so forget that. We drive for pleasure; we buy lots of cars; we run old cars; we participate or follow Motorsport, and it doesn't get more polluting than that imo. I mean, I even have a (diesel driving) friend who flies round the world photographing Motorsport, then comes home and posts crap on Facebook about EVs.
Skyrocket21 said:
Those codes are just telling you that it's blocking up, a restriction is happening, I'm guessing you have the exhaust symbol dpf light on the dashboard, that's the last stage before it'll go into limp mode and you'll be in a vw garage. Your best bet is to get it to a trusted VAG specialist with the correct equipment, they'll be looking at the differential pressure etc, basically it's not working because of a fault, the easiest one to change is the pressure sensor, it's the plastic rectangular shaped thing with a pipe to nowhere, assuming it's the same on a 3.0 tdi. There's a point whereby it won't regen without specialist equipment as a safety measure, not sure if 31 grams is there or not.
You need to get it to a VAG specialist who know the car, personally not keen on the mobile DPF specialists, when it's working, they can perform a forced regen with their equipment. Throwing in a can of archoil AR6400-D will help clear it when it's fixed, it won't solve anything.
Currently got the DPF light 'particulate filter: system fault' - and flashing glow plug light. Stuck in limp mode.You need to get it to a VAG specialist who know the car, personally not keen on the mobile DPF specialists, when it's working, they can perform a forced regen with their equipment. Throwing in a can of archoil AR6400-D will help clear it when it's fixed, it won't solve anything.
I have stumbled across a DPF specialist and they mention pressure sensors are a common fault on VW diesels. Perhaps they can correctly diagnose and clean it out
heebeegeetee said:
Or indeed drive for pleasure?
Save us the sanctimonious hogwash, this is Pistonheads, it's mass consumption grand central.
I've removed an adblue system, on a vehicle just over 2 years old, 2 months out of warranty, a vehicle which only does long journeys. Adblue systems are causing big difficulties on commercial vehicles from everything I've heard and seen.
Adblue systems require millions of tons of product to be produced and shipped around the world. It causes millions of plastic containers to be produced and then dumped. Neither you me or anyone can possibly know whether there's a net reduction of emissions or not. We are told tailpipe emissions are cleaner but even after all this time, MOT emissions tests have barely progressed.
All we know about vehicular emissions is what the motor industry tells us, the industry that has shown to possibly be the most untrustworthy to grace the planet.
Having said this, I think diesel has had its day, I consider new diesel cars now like EVs, ie they can be great, but you don't want to own one, just pay the PCP/salary sacrifice or whatever for 3 years, and then pass it on.
Well said Save us the sanctimonious hogwash, this is Pistonheads, it's mass consumption grand central.
I've removed an adblue system, on a vehicle just over 2 years old, 2 months out of warranty, a vehicle which only does long journeys. Adblue systems are causing big difficulties on commercial vehicles from everything I've heard and seen.
Adblue systems require millions of tons of product to be produced and shipped around the world. It causes millions of plastic containers to be produced and then dumped. Neither you me or anyone can possibly know whether there's a net reduction of emissions or not. We are told tailpipe emissions are cleaner but even after all this time, MOT emissions tests have barely progressed.
All we know about vehicular emissions is what the motor industry tells us, the industry that has shown to possibly be the most untrustworthy to grace the planet.
Having said this, I think diesel has had its day, I consider new diesel cars now like EVs, ie they can be great, but you don't want to own one, just pay the PCP/salary sacrifice or whatever for 3 years, and then pass it on.
we are fed lies constantly aturnick54 said:
Currently got the DPF light 'particulate filter: system fault' - and flashing glow plug light. Stuck in limp mode.
I have stumbled across a DPF specialist and they mention pressure sensors are a common fault on VW diesels. Perhaps they can correctly diagnose and clean it out
Most common are glow plugs, egr and nox sensors.I have stumbled across a DPF specialist and they mention pressure sensors are a common fault on VW diesels. Perhaps they can correctly diagnose and clean it out
heebeegeetee said:
Now this is so untrue so why say it?
Unless it's been done very badly, a car with a dpf removed will go through it's MOT year after year, and if you're thinking of roadside checks, the odds are so minimal you wouldn't be able to express the odds.
It is NOT an easy way to get slapped with a big fine, you have simply made that up.
Morals? We're petrolheads, so forget that. We drive for pleasure; we buy lots of cars; we run old cars; we participate or follow Motorsport, and it doesn't get more polluting than that imo. I mean, I even have a (diesel driving) friend who flies round the world photographing Motorsport, then comes home and posts crap on Facebook about EVs.
There could have been occasions where I have passed a vehicle that has had a DPF delete, I suppose if there is no physical difference I wouldn't know.Unless it's been done very badly, a car with a dpf removed will go through it's MOT year after year, and if you're thinking of roadside checks, the odds are so minimal you wouldn't be able to express the odds.
It is NOT an easy way to get slapped with a big fine, you have simply made that up.
Morals? We're petrolheads, so forget that. We drive for pleasure; we buy lots of cars; we run old cars; we participate or follow Motorsport, and it doesn't get more polluting than that imo. I mean, I even have a (diesel driving) friend who flies round the world photographing Motorsport, then comes home and posts crap on Facebook about EVs.
I have however failed quite a few on the emissions where the DPF has had the middle removed and has had the delete. I did an emissions test on a Mercedes Sprinter last week for someone in the trade who told me this had been done and the emissions were nowhere near low enough to pass. DPFs are extremely efficient at keeping soot levels low.
In BMW land it is seemingly always a faulty thermostat, if the car doesn't get to the correct temp it will not attempt a regen.
With regards to the poster saying the DPF stores the ash, is that true? I thought it burnt the carbon at high temp and blew the ash out of the exhaust? My E-class is a whisker off 200k with the original DPF, never once have I had to get it cleaned or heard of anyone doing the same.
With regards to the poster saying the DPF stores the ash, is that true? I thought it burnt the carbon at high temp and blew the ash out of the exhaust? My E-class is a whisker off 200k with the original DPF, never once have I had to get it cleaned or heard of anyone doing the same.
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