E46 Gear Change Clunk
Discussion
Fox- said:
dr_gn said:
LOL!
Broken? On a 68,000 mile prestige car that was, what, £30K+ when new?
Are you telling me you bought a used BMW expecting nothing to ever go wrong ever?Broken? On a 68,000 mile prestige car that was, what, £30K+ when new?
Crikey.
I expected "The Ultimate Driving Machine" to be at least as mechanically refined and robust as the 20 year old Honda it replaced (or the aforementioned 50 year old E-Type Jaguar for that matter).
I like the looks, solid feel and ergonomics of the BMW, but I expected the engineering to be of a far higher standard. For example, having to periodically replace the entire cooling system seems a little tiresome, and the potential for the rear subframe to part company with the boot floor is also a minor worry.
Fox- said:
It's fairly common knowledge that nothing is as mechanically robust as a decent Honda, especially not a BMW. That was an unreasonable expectation.
I expected better. I was initially impressed with these cars (on test drives etc) and assumed the crappy gearbox was something I'd get used to. You only really get to know a car when you own and maintain it for a while. I don't think I'd buy another. Then again I've no idea what car I would go for.
4rephill said:
To follow up on My previous post above:
(NOTE: The clunk that is heard/felt occurs when the car is completely stationary, either from being parked or completely at a complete stop in traffic. It is not a drive-train shunt or caused when the clutch is engaged - the clutch is fully depressed at the time of the clunk and the clunk occurs as the gear lever is moved to select the gear).
1) If I start off by reversing out of a space, completely stop the car and then engage 1st gear, I occasionally get a clunk but more often there is no clunk.
2) If I start off by engaging 1st gear, most times I get a clunk (not always though which is a bit baffling!), and the clunk is more pronounced than that experienced in example 1) above.
3) If I select another gear first (for example 3rd gear), and then go to 1st gear, there is no clunk going into 1st - but there may be a slight clunk going into the initial gear selected (3rd gear gear in this example). Again, this clunk seems to be less pronounced than the 1st gear clunk would be.
4) If I select 1st gear and get the clunk, immediately take the car out of 1st gear (with the clutch still depressed at all times), and then select 1st gear again - there is no clunk when 1st is re-selected. (The same thing happens if I select any other gear and then 1st without releasing the clutch).
5) If the car has only just become stationary and 1st gear is selected immediately - there is no clunk.
6) The clunk does occur when other gears are selected when the car is stationary but 1st gear is the most pronounced. (3rd seems to be the next worse, followed by 2nd, then 4th. 5th didn't seem to clunk at all).
7) As stated before, if the car is rolling even slightly forward then there is no clunk.
Based on My own findings (and the fact that auto's don't have this clunk issue), I'm convinced it's something worn inside the gearbox.
Apart from 1) above I would say that is exactly the issues I experience.(NOTE: The clunk that is heard/felt occurs when the car is completely stationary, either from being parked or completely at a complete stop in traffic. It is not a drive-train shunt or caused when the clutch is engaged - the clutch is fully depressed at the time of the clunk and the clunk occurs as the gear lever is moved to select the gear).
1) If I start off by reversing out of a space, completely stop the car and then engage 1st gear, I occasionally get a clunk but more often there is no clunk.
2) If I start off by engaging 1st gear, most times I get a clunk (not always though which is a bit baffling!), and the clunk is more pronounced than that experienced in example 1) above.
3) If I select another gear first (for example 3rd gear), and then go to 1st gear, there is no clunk going into 1st - but there may be a slight clunk going into the initial gear selected (3rd gear gear in this example). Again, this clunk seems to be less pronounced than the 1st gear clunk would be.
4) If I select 1st gear and get the clunk, immediately take the car out of 1st gear (with the clutch still depressed at all times), and then select 1st gear again - there is no clunk when 1st is re-selected. (The same thing happens if I select any other gear and then 1st without releasing the clutch).
5) If the car has only just become stationary and 1st gear is selected immediately - there is no clunk.
6) The clunk does occur when other gears are selected when the car is stationary but 1st gear is the most pronounced. (3rd seems to be the next worse, followed by 2nd, then 4th. 5th didn't seem to clunk at all).
7) As stated before, if the car is rolling even slightly forward then there is no clunk.
Based on My own findings (and the fact that auto's don't have this clunk issue), I'm convinced it's something worn inside the gearbox.
It is more baffling that the problem is not every single time 1st gear is engaged but "usual" rather than not.
Also nor forgetting the clunk when changing from 1st to 2nd which is constant.
Are diesel models also affected?
Paul M said:
Apart from 1) above I would say that is exactly the issues I experience.
It is more baffling that the problem is not every single time 1st gear is engaged but "usual" rather than not.
Also nor forgetting the clunk when changing from 1st to 2nd which is constant.
Are diesel models also affected?
I get the 1st to 2nd gear change clunk everytime too. It is more baffling that the problem is not every single time 1st gear is engaged but "usual" rather than not.
Also nor forgetting the clunk when changing from 1st to 2nd which is constant.
Are diesel models also affected?
I don't think diesels suffer from it, which is interesting because Realoem indicates that they are fitted with Getrag gearboxes.
Your car and Mine have ZF gearboxes according to the same site!
Looks even more like a gearbox issue now - a ZF gearbox issue!
4rephill said:
I get the 1st to 2nd gear change clunk everytime too.
I don't think diesels suffer from it, which is interesting because Realoem indicates that they are fitted with Getrag gearboxes.
Your car and Mine have ZF gearboxes according to the same site!
Looks even more like a gearbox issue now - a ZF gearbox issue!
They do suffer from it - my 330d does anyway. Can't say it bothers me, it's just personality imo, as my E36 did the exact same thing. I don't think diesels suffer from it, which is interesting because Realoem indicates that they are fitted with Getrag gearboxes.
Your car and Mine have ZF gearboxes according to the same site!
Looks even more like a gearbox issue now - a ZF gearbox issue!
As for the question of how well engineered these things really are, can't say I've seen too much to doubt they're well put together. OK they eat bushes, but it's a fairly heavy car set up to go round corners well, I would kind of expect that. I do have more problems wth BMW's than my good friend does with his Hondas, however his Hondas bore the crap out of me as a way of getting from A to B, so dunno.
Interesting reading I've had a clonking gear change as all of your postings on my zed 4 3.0si . BMW replaced the clutch and gearbox under warranty at 26000 miles it helped but not solved. My Indi serviced it last week and commented on it as being a bit too notchy , Ive reported the fault to Warranty Direct and my policy appears to accomodate gearbox problems .My trusted Indi had suggested firstly trying a gearbox oil additive but now I've followed this discussion ime inclined to leave"well" alone and follow the suggestions put foreward here. If I do go for the additive or gearbox out options I will update. I have to say I enjoy driving our golf gt Tdi as the gearbox is like a hot knife in HOT Butter.
tonymor said:
Interesting reading I've had a clonking gear change as all of your postings on my zed 4 3.0si . BMW replaced the clutch and gearbox under warranty at 26000 miles it helped but not solved. My Indi serviced it last week and commented on it as being a bit too notchy , Ive reported the fault to Warranty Direct and my policy appears to accomodate gearbox problems .My trusted Indi had suggested firstly trying a gearbox oil additive but now I've followed this discussion ime inclined to leave"well" alone and follow the suggestions put foreward here. If I do go for the additive or gearbox out options I will update. I have to say I enjoy driving our golf gt Tdi as the gearbox is like a hot knife in HOT Butter.
My impression having been under the car with the engine running and someone moving the lever from first to reverse, was that the clunk itself comes from the rear axle area, but that the initial 'jolt' that casued the noise came from the gearbox. Maybe a weak synchro or even oil drag.tonymor said:
I must say that my clunking is intermittent but it's not pleasant when I am at traffic lights and I have to hope that I will be able to engage first gear . I suspect other motorists think I don't know which is the clutch pedal!!
Mines never that bad - are you sure your clutch is bled or there isn't some other clutch issue?tonymor said:
Interesting reading I've had a clonking gear change as all of your postings on my zed 4 3.0si . BMW replaced the clutch and gearbox under warranty at 26000 miles it helped but not solved. My Indi serviced it last week and commented on it as being a bit too notchy , Ive reported the fault to Warranty Direct and my policy appears to accomodate gearbox problems .My trusted Indi had suggested firstly trying a gearbox oil additive but now I've followed this discussion ime inclined to leave"well" alone and follow the suggestions put foreward here. If I do go for the additive or gearbox out options I will update. I have to say I enjoy driving our golf gt Tdi as the gearbox is like a hot knife in HOT Butter.
That is interesting. Wonder if your Z4 3.0Si has the same gearbox as the E46.
Is the clunking mostly when changing 1st to 2nd and when standing and going into 1st?
Paul M said:
dr_gn said:
Mines never that bad - are you sure your clutch is bled or there isn't some other clutch issue?
As posted earlier. I have had the clutch and flywheel changed - as the dealer thought that was the issue causing the noise..... It was'nt!bodhi said:
They do suffer from it - my 330d does anyway. Can't say it bothers me, it's just personality imo, as my E36 did the exact same thing.
As for the question of how well engineered these things really are, can't say I've seen too much to doubt they're well put together. OK they eat bushes, but it's a fairly heavy car set up to go round corners well, I would kind of expect that. I do have more problems wth BMW's than my good friend does with his Hondas, however his Hondas bore the crap out of me as a way of getting from A to B, so dunno.
As for the question of how well engineered these things really are, can't say I've seen too much to doubt they're well put together. OK they eat bushes, but it's a fairly heavy car set up to go round corners well, I would kind of expect that. I do have more problems wth BMW's than my good friend does with his Hondas, however his Hondas bore the crap out of me as a way of getting from A to B, so dunno.
Art0ir said:
My 320D did it, gearbox oilchange made it more bearable for around 500 miles then it came back. Very odd. 330ci is perfect with more miles, no noises at all from the transmission.
Bang goes one of My theories then! (still - makes a change from a clunk! 
)I recently contacted BMW (UK) who in turn spoke with the dealer. This is their reply to me after speaking with the dealer;
"Upon receipt of your communication, I contacted Mr- -, Workshop Controller at - in -. Mr - has confirmed that initially the flywheel of your vehicle was replaced as this was though to be causing the noise you describe. However, you soon reported that the noise was still present.
Mr - then accompanied you on a test drive and determined that the noise is only apparent when the vehicle is sat idle and first gear is selected. This noise occurs when the drive train first becomes active. Mr - then tested this on other vehicles of a similar age to yours and found that the noise was present with them too. As a result, Mr - could only recommend that the noise is normal and that you monitor the noise".
1. I was not accompanied on a test drive. I demonstrated the noise sat in the car with the WC and explained the noise when driving and changing from 1st to 2nd gear
2. The noise is not only apparent when the vehicle is sat at idle (As 1 above)
3. Which vehicles of a similar age? I wasn't told that by the WC
4. If the noise is "normal" (after demonstrating to the WC how "violent" the noise at idle can be and feeling it through the seat) then all similar vehicles must suffer from it - Which they don't!
"Upon receipt of your communication, I contacted Mr- -, Workshop Controller at - in -. Mr - has confirmed that initially the flywheel of your vehicle was replaced as this was though to be causing the noise you describe. However, you soon reported that the noise was still present.
Mr - then accompanied you on a test drive and determined that the noise is only apparent when the vehicle is sat idle and first gear is selected. This noise occurs when the drive train first becomes active. Mr - then tested this on other vehicles of a similar age to yours and found that the noise was present with them too. As a result, Mr - could only recommend that the noise is normal and that you monitor the noise".
1. I was not accompanied on a test drive. I demonstrated the noise sat in the car with the WC and explained the noise when driving and changing from 1st to 2nd gear
2. The noise is not only apparent when the vehicle is sat at idle (As 1 above)
3. Which vehicles of a similar age? I wasn't told that by the WC
4. If the noise is "normal" (after demonstrating to the WC how "violent" the noise at idle can be and feeling it through the seat) then all similar vehicles must suffer from it - Which they don't!
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff