ZF Gearbox Oil Change at BMW dealer
Discussion
bigdom said:
The gearbox oil change threads are always intriguing. Most people on here will happily ignore the BMW engine oil schedule as its too long for longterm reliability, but believe BMW for the gearbox. Even VW have 40k oil schedule for DSG.
ZF make the boxes, and in Germany it's common practice to have them serviced at one of their service centres. My towcar 535d will have its 2nd change next year as it will be on around 150k by then.
Maybe it's because you can DIY (or at a 'quick fit' type place) an engine oil change for not a lot of money, and you're extremely unlikely to cock anything up...and thus unlikely to mess up anything covered by a BMW warranty (new car, AUC, or Insured).ZF make the boxes, and in Germany it's common practice to have them serviced at one of their service centres. My towcar 535d will have its 2nd change next year as it will be on around 150k by then.
A proper ZF gearbox service requires a bit more skill, and probably some software, which means most people won't DIY it, and the 'quick fit' places might not have the equipment/software...and if something does go horribly wrong you'll probably get no help from BMW.
Saying that, mine ZF8 will be getting the gearbox serviced every 60k miles at my local BMW or ZF specialist.
Edited by mmm-five on Monday 10th April 13:16
_Hoppers said:
ucb said:
@_Hoppers
What did you do in the end?
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.What did you do in the end?
He's been at it over 35 years and is a ZF accredited transmission specialist; I go with what he says...
d_a_n1979 said:
_Hoppers said:
ucb said:
@_Hoppers
What did you do in the end?
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.What did you do in the end?
He's been at it over 35 years and is a ZF accredited transmission specialist; I go with what he says...
I had some interesting conversations when I was trying to get mine done.
1. Nah mate, them gearboxes don't need servicing, would cost a fortune, why what is wrong with it?
I replied with 'there is nothing wrong with it, it would be pointless servicing it if there was something wrong with it'.
From a place that just does BMW's.
2. No they don't need servicing.
I said if they don't need servicing why do they have a drain plug a fill plug and a replaceable pan/filter.
Finally got it done at a gearbox place (who had a worrying amount of Audis in), it was smoother after the service. No trouble since, 30k later.
1. Nah mate, them gearboxes don't need servicing, would cost a fortune, why what is wrong with it?
I replied with 'there is nothing wrong with it, it would be pointless servicing it if there was something wrong with it'.
From a place that just does BMW's.
2. No they don't need servicing.
I said if they don't need servicing why do they have a drain plug a fill plug and a replaceable pan/filter.
Finally got it done at a gearbox place (who had a worrying amount of Audis in), it was smoother after the service. No trouble since, 30k later.
_Hoppers said:
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.
Which is why they should generally be left alone. Sometimes the tiny particles of worn friction material circulating in the fluid can be helping tired clutches and bands to grip. Fresh fluid can then lead immediately to slippage and the need for a transmission rebuild.There's an argument that if the fluid's knackered the transmission's probably knackered. It's not as if it gets routinely contaminated with combustion deposits like engine oil or has to cope with such a wide range of temperatures. But a precautionary fluid and screen change at about 10 years or 100,000 miles doesn't seem a bad idea, so long as it's done properly.
Panamax said:
_Hoppers said:
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.
Which is why they should generally be left alone. Sometimes the tiny particles of worn friction material circulating in the fluid can be helping tired clutches and bands to grip. Fresh fluid can then lead immediately to slippage and the need for a transmission rebuild.There's an argument that if the fluid's knackered the transmission's probably knackered. It's not as if it gets routinely contaminated with combustion deposits like engine oil or has to cope with such a wide range of temperatures. But a precautionary fluid and screen change at about 10 years or 100,000 miles doesn't seem a bad idea, so long as it's done properly.
Auto-box transmission oil changes are money for old rope in my experience. I've probably done half a dozen oil changes over the years
20 litres of Lifeguard is £150. A new pan and filter is around £100. You just need to be able to get the car in the air to access the pan, on all four wheel and level. The hardest bit is monitoring the oil temperature. It doesn't take long for the oil to be too hot to get the level correct.
Panamax said:
_Hoppers said:
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.
Which is why they should generally be left alone. Sometimes the tiny particles of worn friction material circulating in the fluid can be helping tired clutches and bands to grip. Fresh fluid can then lead immediately to slippage and the need for a transmission rebuild.There's an argument that if the fluid's knackered the transmission's probably knackered. It's not as if it gets routinely contaminated with combustion deposits like engine oil or has to cope with such a wide range of temperatures. But a precautionary fluid and screen change at about 10 years or 100,000 miles doesn't seem a bad idea, so long as it's done properly.
_Hoppers said:
The car has done 75k so hopefully the clutches aren't knackered yet?!
They’ll be fine.My gearbox was serviced at 89k and is smoother than it was previously. The guys that serviced it were happy with the condition of what they saw. It was a bit beyond ZF’s recommended service interval but I’m sure it’ll be fine.
_Hoppers said:
The car has done 75k so hopefully the clutches aren't knackered yet?!
Depends how it's been driven. Pottering up the M4 is very different from towing a caravan up the Alps! Similarly changing down gears to slow the car instead of using the brakes will cause accelerated wear. I eventually got the box serviced! Gear changes became more noticeable, especially when cold. I got a few quotes from garages recommended here but opted for Automatic Transmissions (ZF service centre) in Huddersfield. Price was £450 which was £50 less than other quotes. Gear changes are smoother now!
_Hoppers said:
I eventually got the box serviced! Gear changes became more noticeable, especially when cold. I got a few quotes from garages recommended here but opted for Automatic Transmissions (ZF service centre) in Huddersfield. Price was £450 which was £50 less than other quotes. Gear changes are smoother now!
Thanks for the update, mine is on 54k now, so I will wait a year or so.ucb said:
Had my gearbox serviced too this year (Jan) on about 83k miles iirc.
Happy that I had the service done (Austrian gearboxes in Newcastle) but it was a right faff of a day..
I'll certainly consider doing it again at around 150-160k miles which will be about 3-4 years time.
I got a quote from Austrin and they were £500 IIRC. It would have been a long trip up there for me so Huddersfield and £450 was the better option!Happy that I had the service done (Austrian gearboxes in Newcastle) but it was a right faff of a day..
I'll certainly consider doing it again at around 150-160k miles which will be about 3-4 years time.
_Hoppers said:
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.
Reason BMW don't do fluid changes is because there's a process you need to follow. You can't just bang fluid in, you need to fill up enough to have a stream of fluid running out of the fill plug, then start the engine and cycle the gears (and fill to a dribble out of the fill plug again), then get the gearbox up to 40 degrees (and no higher than 50) and fill to a thin stream of fluid running out again whilst the engine is running.Most dealer techs are incapable of such a thing, have caused gearshift complaints and wiped out gearboxes, and thus BMW took a view that it's best to say "it's filled for life". ZF who actually make the gearbox state 75k service intervals, and the fluid will usually come out fairly knackered by then.
Just don't reset the adaptions unless you know what you're doing, as you can very easily toast the clutches, then.
bgunn said:
_Hoppers said:
After my friend at BMW saying they’ve had a few cars in with gearbox problems after the oil change plus the £500 fee for doing it, I got cold feet! It’s still in the back of my mind though.
Reason BMW don't do fluid changes is because there's a process you need to follow. You can't just bang fluid in, you need to fill up enough to have a stream of fluid running out of the fill plug, then start the engine and cycle the gears (and fill to a dribble out of the fill plug again), then get the gearbox up to 40 degrees (and no higher than 50) and fill to a thin stream of fluid running out again whilst the engine is running.Most dealer techs are incapable of such a thing, have caused gearshift complaints and wiped out gearboxes, and thus BMW took a view that it's best to say "it's filled for life". ZF who actually make the gearbox state 75k service intervals, and the fluid will usually come out fairly knackered by then.
Just don't reset the adaptions unless you know what you're doing, as you can very easily toast the clutches, then.
There's a step most garages miss out. Drive the car until the oil temp reaches 70 degrees, which opens the heat exchanger valve and purges any air out. And then check the level again. It's all clearly laid out in the instructions you get included in ZF's service kit. If you follow it to the letter, you can't go wrong.
Severe shifting problems resulting from a service simply means they f'cked it up. If they don't fill the torque converter properly and purge out the oil cooler, the box can be a litre short. If you hand the garage your 7 litre service kit and they hand you back two bottles, get them to do it again.
Resetting adaptations only affects worn out clutches running well into the outer limits. Very dark fluid is a clue to excessive clutch wear. The clutch fill pressure and rapid fill time adaptations for clutches A to E can be read with Bimmerlink and XHP. If they are all less than 100mbar and 50ms respectively, then there is no harm in resetting them what so ever following a fluid change. It's standard practice to do that on JLR cars. The adaptations constantly change anyway, which is the point of them.
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 19th April 18:40
Fox- said:
rottenegg said:
BMW don't do it because they know very few people will exceed ZF's fluid change interval within the 3 year/unlimited mileage warranty.
So why do BMW have other service items which do take place after 3 years?Oil service = filter + oil
Oil from Costco = £40
Filter from BMW = £15
Cost to you sir for thirty minutes of my skilled labour = £150
Kerching.
A gearbox service takes longer, and needs constant attention. No undo drain plug, switch on kettle. If it gets too hot, you have to let it cool and start again.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff