Login | Register
SearchMy Stuff
My ProfileMy PreferencesMy Mates RSS Feed
2
Reply to Topic
Author Discussion

Bargain Bucket

Original Poster:

293 posts

79 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
So what could one reasonably expect to get out of a normally aspirated LS1? Needs to be kept emissions friendly but wouldn't be a daily driver (but neither would it be a track/drag car). And what sort of mods would be needed to achieve it? Headers and exhaust of course but what sort of heads, cam etc, inlet (would an LS6 suffice)? Just thinking out loud really.

ringram

12,208 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Budget?
Goal?

Considerations.

Valves are the biggest ultimate restriction
Size valves/heads to goal and match the remaining components
Displacement makes it easier
RPM makes BHP
Airflow is BHP, Airmass is torque

Stock displacement with emissions compliance IMO you are targeting 400rwhp max.
Which is around 450rwhp in USA

224/228-114 or similar with high lift, good heads and intake. Head on over to ls1tech.com and look at PatG's post for the 500rwhp formula. 500 wont be emissions compliant.. But the rest of the approach is solid.

Expect to spend $2700 US on heads, and another $1000 on intake.
Or better yet get a set of ITB's they will help make max power, but they are more like $4000



MyM8V8

6,800 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Just need a budget for now. Are you doing the work yourself? Whats the LS1 spec?







Edited by MyM8V8 on Wednesday 20th June 14:49

Bargain Bucket

Original Poster:

293 posts

79 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Just a bog standard LS1 baseline (1999 spec). No ideas as such on the budget right now. It's a chicken and egg situation. I don't want to spend thousands chasing the last possible 20 bhp. And I'd like to avoid a bottom end build if it isn't neccesary. I suppose it's a bit of a budget build with the aim of getting the most bang for buck. 400 rwhp would be quite acceptable.

Bargain Bucket

Original Poster:

293 posts

79 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Oh, and doing the work myself (with the possible exception of the first pass tune which will be a massive learning curve for me).
Advertisement

richie slow

5,744 posts

33 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Have a word with Stick100, he's put together a really nice NA set-up which will have 400rw when it's done. And he's done it all himself too! clap

KMud

596 posts

25 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
So what is an exhaust, air filter and remap likely to equate to? I.e., what's my ls1 with wortec sport pack really making? wink

richie slow

5,744 posts

33 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
KMud said:
So what is an exhaust, air filter and remap likely to equate to? I.e., what's my ls1 with wortec sport pack really making? wink
My 05 CV8 makes 340rw according to the online calculators (based on 1/4 mile times and speeds) as I've never been on the rollers. That's probably about 30hp more than standard and mine's only got Wortec cat-back, remap and airbox mod.

monkfish1

5,070 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
KMud said:
So what is an exhaust, air filter and remap likely to equate to? I.e., what's my ls1 with wortec sport pack really making?


390bhp at the flywheel. 290 ish at the wheels.

KMud

596 posts

25 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Hmm. Will read around the above, dangerous (financially) as it may be.

MyM8V8

6,800 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Bargain Bucket said:
Oh, and doing the work myself (with the possible exception of the first pass tune which will be a massive learning curve for me).
The tune is the most important bit as there is likely some left on the table to start with. If I were on a tight budget, I'd be scrounging someones cast off 253 (LS2/6) heads cheap, find an LS6 inlet (if your doesn't have one), a take off LS2/6 cam off someone (or get a set of 1.8 roller rockers), I'd be going mafless, working the TB and filter box. Try and get a used set of headers and up the exhaust size. You should make around 350ish at the wheels set up right as I think ringram has with an LS1.If the money is there, new cam and springs (£500 ish?) to get you nearer 400.

Bargain Bucket

Original Poster:

293 posts

79 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
I'm lucky in that I already have stored away : Wortec headers, 2.25 inch exhaust (an odd size !!), sports cats, LS6 inlet, and an enlarged TB (although I can't recall what size it is). So perhaps my shopping list is already down to OTRCAI, heads, cam and possibly rockers.

ringram

12,208 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
My camaro has pretty much exactly what Gareth just listed.
It dyno'd stock at 298rwhp just with a basic tune through the auto.

Its now got headers, intake, manifold, cam, heads etc. Not sure what to expect now. But 350-370 would be good. The idea was a budget build. Cam is a girly 219/227-112 but with over 0.600 lift..

On an ultra tight budget I think 370rwhp is doable. LS6 intake, small cam and 243 or equiv heads. That exhaust isnt ideal. Probably ok for 370rwhp but you will leave some on the table after that.

243 heads are a good idea. The 99 has the crap ls1 intake just swapping for an ls6 intake is worth 20rwhp so basically essential. Check with MF or another vendor for an intake.

As Gareth says probably half your gains will come from the tune.

Waiting for a replacement trans as the stock one doesn't like the new stall or power.
It goes sideways on demand as it is so no useless FI required biggrin

MyM8V8

6,800 posts

64 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
ringram said:
My camaro has pretty much exactly what Gareth just listed.
It dyno'd stock at 298rwhp just with a basic tune through the auto.

Its now got headers, intake, manifold, cam, heads etc. Not sure what to expect now. But 350-370 would be good. The idea was a budget build. Cam is a girly 219/227-112 but with over 0.600 lift..

On an ultra tight budget I think 370rwhp is doable. LS6 intake, small cam and 243 or equiv heads. That exhaust isnt ideal. Probably ok for 370rwhp but you will leave some on the table after that.

243 heads are a good idea. The 99 has the crap ls1 intake just swapping for an ls6 intake is worth 20rwhp so basically essential. Check with MF or another vendor for an intake.

As Gareth says probably half your gains will come from the tune.

Waiting for a replacement trans as the stock one doesn't like the new stall or power.
It goes sideways on demand as it is so no useless FI required biggrin
I just got my new FLT L7 trans. Will be going in with the 457 soon.

ringram

12,208 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Excellent news !


maudyz28

124 posts

49 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
I want another gearbox now guys, all this talk of FLT trans....

For another opinion,
my 99 camaro z28's got 243 LS2 heads, LT headers, 3" true duals, 228/228 @ 0.050" cam with 0.588/0.588" lift, LS6 intake and all the supporting valve-train mods too. I'm prob putting around a similar value at the wheels to ringram give or take 10-15 hp, his heads are ported and with a smaller cam, mine are stock with bigger cam and exhaust. I run a 12.3 quarter with 2s 60ft time which is pants and thats with the gearbox slipping for about a whole second getting into 3rd.

I'm sure theres been some cams floating about on here and you'll be able to pic up some 243 heads too so will be done on a budget easy enough. Tuning is fun, one's it idling right and you've got a WB in there you're go to go and get logging and tuning

300bhp/ton

26,483 posts

59 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
KMud said:
So what is an exhaust, air filter and remap likely to equate to? I.e., what's my ls1 with wortec sport pack really making? wink
What sort of exhaust, filter and map though. And what's the starting engine?

jameshsv

2,737 posts

29 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Are cnc ported 243 heads far better than standerd 243 heads by how much and is it worth the cost.

ringram

12,208 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
ls1 heads 230cfm
ls2/243 heads 260cfm
cnc ls2 heads can be around 310cfm

In theory my cnc ls1 heads (via Stevie, thanks!) were rated at 296cfm

Then it goes up from there, AllPro 12-2 heads flow 435cfm but you need a 0.750 cam to get there plus a 4.125 bore etc..
Forget them unless you want insane power and an equally insane bill. But 900bhp NA is within your grasp smile

AFR heads are good as are MAST, WCCH, TFS etc.

Dont just buy heads based on cfm! Look at port cc and cross sectional area. What you want is an efficient port.
Also look at where it tips over if the port backs up on the flow bench it will back up on the road much easier.

Compression is also your friend and dont forget valve lift. Its free power. You just need to pay attention to valvetrain.

TFS do some 220cc "as cast" heads, which flow really well and cost bugger all. On a budget they would be my choice unless you can get some cheap cnc 243s somewhere.

For max effort LS1 Id look at AFR 205's or their new 210's forget anything that looks remotely like a MAF, if you put it anywhere near your engine your project will fail instantly.

I like Simon's 223/231-112 cam. Its probably as large as Id want to go on an LS1 for a daily drive with traffic action. Of course an auto and stall will eat any sized cam.

jameshsv

2,737 posts

29 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
i think ls2 cnc heads should complemant my MF cam ok.you thoughts please ringram.
2
Reply to Topic