Someone at Natwest told you something, no doubt in good faith, but Ean218 has quoted chapter and verse from the association that runs CHAPS, and is clearly to the contrary. My 20 odd year experience of Natwest certainly wouldn't preclude me from thinking I might come across an employee who didn't know his arse from his elbow !

Speaking as a Natwest business banking customer, I haven't been told that about CHAPS, as opposed to BACS, and, more pertinently, I can't find it on their website or anywhere in the booklet about receiving payments from customers.

The reason it matters is that people may cease paying for CHAPS services, believing them to be unsafe, and turn to riskier strategies. I don't think anyone's having a go at you personally

For the sake of clarity, I imagine Red Devil meant to post as follows:

Speaking as a business customer who is forced by 'Head Office politics' to bank with Nat West I can echo this with a vengeance. It has an enviable pedigree for employing such people. My first experience of it was 40 years ago. I made a successful pitch to the company's MD to change banks as a result. A lot of hassle to implement but worth it in the long term.

Given the choice I wouldn't touch them with the proverbial 10ft. Unfortunately in my present job my hands are tied as our parent company's CEO is on first name terms with two of the Bank's directors!

Same day CHAPS payments require instruction to the paying Bank to be given before 2pm for it to be *guaranteed*. However the actual transfer window runs until the bank's same day close of business time. For the customer receiving the funds to be able to see the transaction in their account that day real time online banking must be operational. Or else they would have to telephone/visit their branch to confirm the money has been credited to the account.

It is possible for the paying customer to countermand a CHAPS instruction. If this is done within the transfer window the transaction can be reversed. I have had to issue a revocation request to the company's Bank when an error as to the correct amount has been made and it has been acted upon. This suggests to me that the irrrevocability only becomes established when the close of business curtain falls. Not having been on the receiving end of such a situation I have no idea what would appear on the payee's bank statement.

One thing you can be sure of, a professional fraudster would be well aware of the limitations/possibilities within the banking system!

exactly

At last, we have someone who has reversed a CHAPS. Thank you for confirmation.



Indeed. But that needs to be in a hard copy, NOT an over the phone or online statement. It needs to be a proper bank statement / receipt issued by the branch.

In my recent situation I had £11k deposited in my account via CHAPS. It was sent at 11am, yet by 5pm that same day my branch refused to give me a hard copy receipt to show the amount actually in my account. The Manager (of 15 years) said I will not get a receipt of my balance until the next working day. He said for it to be non reversible and totally guaranteed it need to pass the close of business deadline. THEN I would get the hard copy new balance in my hand.



Maybe this all seems OTT. But what worried me was the branch manager AND the Natwest telephone banking service telling me exactly the same thing: CHAPS non reversal is not guaranteed until the next working day so beware.

And rest. Clearly do as you will, but some have been duped.

Isn't this all pretty much redundant now, as a lot of high street banks operate real-time bank transfers?

Not sure whether you can claim these back after they've been made, but if you're worried, why not do the internet transfer at the time of the car sale, then transfer the money into a separate account (spouse's, one set up for the purpose, etc).

I doubt the original payer would be able to reclaim the payment from a third party bank/account.

Can you reverse a bank transfer though?

You clearly don't have much experience of High Street Banks. Most of them don't even open on a Saturday and you can forget about it on a Sunday. Pretty inconvenient considering that I'd imagine most second hand cars are bought at the weekend.

Then if you do find one that is open, you are inevitably confronted withbreathtaking idiocy and unprofessionalism.

When you say "Natwest" I assume you mean a spotty teenager/faceless representative who works for Natwest?

Never had a problem using banks myself. Have done this on most cars I bought/sold and they were all open on a saturday.

It's a big purchase, it's not hard to buy when banks are open if you're worried about forgeries, dodgy cash etc.

I've just pointed out how it CAN be done safely and securely with no risk. If you don't like that option, tough titties, use your riskier alternative, no skin off my nose.

Keep your hair on, I just took issue with your statement that it "Really is very easy and simple", when on the two occassions I've tried to do it, it has been the opposite.