Guesses as to what GruFFnuTT has bought

Guesses as to what GruFFnuTT has bought

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GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
Coatesy351 said:
GruFFnuTT said:
ARAF said:
I think there's a lot about that car that a lot of us don't know much about. cool
Cheers Vince thumbup

Yeah Ian, I don't really understand the spec. I'm trying to find out if it's a drag setup or whether it's just been made to 'look' like that.
If it is capable of power, then it must be up in the higher rev range as the auto box seems to keep the gearing low. Lots of torque but no real umff... It's hard to explain.

It must have extreme drag radials and a stall converter for a reason having read up about them and what they're for... Launching dragsters!!! biglaugh

If any knowledgable person knows, please educate me. I'm still not sure what the censored I've bought!? Haha
It was a horrible feeling doing a deal on a car that you know nothing about. It was a massive gamble, but at least it looks nice if nothing else... scratchchin

Edited by GruFFnuTT on Tuesday 29th April 10:45
ok ill give this a go. If the car has a "bigger" cam fitted a stock convertor will be too tight for it and when you accelerate the car will bog down. Hence the higher stall speed. Also when you want a quick launch bring the revs up by holding the car on the brakes while bringing the revs up (use two feet)when you want to launch just take your foot off the brake. You may need to experiment with how much you can bring the revs up before it just breaks into wheelspin when you take your foot off the brake. This combined with semi slick and the lower diff gears should get you off the line very well. Do you know the cam specs? You should be able to rev it safely to 6500 with standard con rods and cast pistons. As an example my xe falcon with a very mild 351c c4 auto 2500 stall on street tyres ran a 12.9 @ 104 it weighed 1460kg. Mustang may be a bit heavier with a nine inch and c6.
biggrin Thanks for the info. This does just about make sense to me and will explain why the car does bog down when pushing through (manually held/not auto) 1st, but a massive pickup when 2nd is selected. I managed to lose traction quite accidentally when leaving a pub meet a couple of weeks ago, just from a bit of extra right foot and simply changing up.
The car has no rev counter so I'm doing everything on sound and feel.
I've been watching some YouTube clips on launching and wondering how they achieved ripping the tyres from the road. I had my suspicions about standing on the brakes and bringing the revs up, but I didn't want to try it and damage the car through ignorance.

http://youtu.be/P7OMreTL3nI

All I know about the Cam, is that it's a 'Competition Cam' (???) with forged internals. It doesn't sound as lumpy as the car above and ticks over very smoothly. The spec list is on page 3 of this thread. I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to get some finer details from the builder of the car in the US. I'll keep trying...
I have found an American Classic Car Specialist about 50miles away, so I'm thinking about running it over to them for a 'looksee' and see if they can throw any light on the cars setup. I reckon it could do with a tune up and I'd love for the fuel gauge to work to give me a clue? laugh

Thanks again mate.
thumbup

Coatesy351

861 posts

132 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
GruFFnuTT said:
biggrin Thanks for the info. This does just about make sense to me and will explain why the car does bog down when pushing through (manually held/not auto) 1st, but a massive pickup when 2nd is selected. I managed to lose traction quite accidentally when leaving a pub meet a couple of weeks ago, just from a bit of extra right foot and simply changing up.
The car has no rev counter so I'm doing everything on sound and feel.
I've been watching some YouTube clips on launching and wondering how they achieved ripping the tyres from the road. I had my suspicions about standing on the brakes and bringing the revs up, but I didn't want to try it and damage the car through ignorance.

http://youtu.be/P7OMreTL3nI

All I know about the Cam, is that it's a 'Competition Cam' (???) with forged internals. It doesn't sound as lumpy as the car above and ticks over very smoothly. The spec list is on page 3 of this thread. I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to get some finer details from the builder of the car in the US. I'll keep trying...
I have found an American Classic Car Specialist about 50miles away, so I'm thinking about running it over to them for a 'looksee' and see if they can throw any light on the cars setup. I reckon it could do with a tune up and I'd love for the fuel gauge to work to give me a clue? laugh

Thanks again mate.
thumbup
Did you get a bunch of receipts with the car? Maybe the cam spec card is with them. Should have the specs for the cam on it, lift duration etc and a part No. Competition cams is a brand. If you can find the part number you could look up the cam and find out the working rpm range of it. I'll wade into the 4v v 2v head debate and say from my experience 4v's are too big unless your going for big power and big revs ie 7000 plus. The port velocity is too slow for good cylinder filling at lower rpm. My old engine had 2v heads with 4v exhaust valves and was really snappy would blaze the tyres easy and pulled hard to 6000. Get a tune, make sure its jetted correctly, the timing is correct. With MSD you can open up the plug gaps a fair way because of the powerful spark. If the engine is any good it should move along very nicely and really haul off the line when it hooks up. ��


GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
Coatesy351 said:
Did you get a bunch of receipts with the car? Maybe the cam spec card is with them. Should have the specs for the cam on it, lift duration etc and a part No. Competition cams is a brand. If you can find the part number you could look up the cam and find out the working rpm range of it. I'll wade into the 4v v 2v head debate and say from my experience 4v's are too big unless your going for big power and big revs ie 7000 plus. The port velocity is too slow for good cylinder filling at lower rpm. My old engine had 2v heads with 4v exhaust valves and was really snappy would blaze the tyres easy and pulled hard to 6000. Get a tune, make sure its jetted correctly, the timing is correct. With MSD you can open up the plug gaps a fair way because of the powerful spark. If the engine is any good it should move along very nicely and really haul off the line when it hooks up. ��
Yeah, I did get a nice wad of paperwork for the car, but when I looked through it at the time of purchase, there was not much detailing the build for the performance parts. Hence it was a bit of a gamble at the time. I went on the fact that I could clearly see that the car had had a very recent rebuild with many new parts and hoped that the spec sheet was true.
I will have another read through it all and report back if I find anything...

ringram

14,700 posts

248 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
Yeah its about package.
4v heads are too big and slow except for high rpm power.
Sounds like the setup is dialed in for performance rather than economy. Is the intake a single or dual plane?
High rise doesnt exactly confirm either.

For street you probably want 2v heads, cam in the 23x range MAX! Ideally mid 22x.
Gears should perhaps be 3.08:1 or 2.92 etc for economy. Then you can drop stall down a tad to perhaps 1800 or so.

But Id be tempted in a 4 speed auto kit so you get a lockup converter and overdrive.

But so far this thread sums up why a late model HSV is better.

Nice car, but not practical IMO. Probably 3000rpm at 70mph?
If you need low tax get a ute wink

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
Cheers Ringram.

Unfortunately, I don't understand most of what you wrote. Haha. Soz...
I just wanted a classic American Muscle Car, so I bought the coolest one I could find!!! cool
I'm enjoying finding out about its setup though.
There's no doubt this thing has power (I'm sure the Custom Shop in Florida where it came from, knew what they were doing when they built it) but at the moment, I've been happy just cruising around on a sunny day, although I'll be trying that two foot launch technique soon for The Pod! wink

ARAF

20,759 posts

223 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
GruFFnuTT said:
(I'm sure the Custom Shop in Florida where it came from, knew what they were doing when they built it)
As long as it wasn't Bernie & Mawio, you should be fine. banghead

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
ARAF said:
GruFFnuTT said:
(I'm sure the Custom Shop in Florida where it came from, knew what they were doing when they built it)
As long as it wasn't Bernie & Mawio, you should be fine. banghead
hehe Their cars are lovely though...??? vomit

ARAF

20,759 posts

223 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
GruFFnuTT said:
ARAF said:
GruFFnuTT said:
(I'm sure the Custom Shop in Florida where it came from, knew what they were doing when they built it)
As long as it wasn't Bernie & Mawio, you should be fine. banghead
hehe Their cars are lovely though...??? vomit
That's Bernie & Leepu. Mario does the classics with Bernie. wink

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Tuesday 20th May 2014
quotequote all
ARAF said:
GruFFnuTT said:
ARAF said:
GruFFnuTT said:
(I'm sure the Custom Shop in Florida where it came from, knew what they were doing when they built it)
As long as it wasn't Bernie & Mawio, you should be fine. banghead
hehe Their cars are lovely though...??? vomit
That's Bernie & Leepu. Mario does the classics with Bernie. wink
Marginally better!!! laugh

Coatesy351

861 posts

132 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
GruFFnuTT said:
Cheers Ringram.

Unfortunately, I don't understand most of what you wrote. Haha. Soz...
I just wanted a classic American Muscle Car, so I bought the coolest one I could find!!! cool
I'm enjoying finding out about its setup though.
There's no doubt this thing has power (I'm sure the Custom Shop in Florida where it came from, knew what they were doing when they built it) but at the moment, I've been happy just cruising around on a sunny day, although I'll be trying that two foot launch technique soon for The Pod! wink
I wouldn't worry, mustang looks cooler and sounds better than any late model HSV. Bugger practicality if you have a second car. Oh and you have the same engine as a pantera does do they have a forum on here. Might be good for engine performance/tuning questions.

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
Cheers Andy,

I've been doing some research into what both you and Ringram have been saying. I unfortunately don't have an engineering background, so I'm a bit slow on the uptake to grasp some of the basic principles.

I will be attempting torque braking at some point having read up about the technique for drag launching autos (I feel more confident now that I won't damage the transmission) and I've been reading up on torque/stall converters and I'm beginning to get a grasp of what Ringram was trying to explain to me. I wish I had his knowledge on this stuff, it would make life so much easier... hehe

Does this clip explain the launch principle you mentioned without it turning into a full on burnout?

http://youtu.be/GcrynXnCVvY

And, I think this is what Ringram was trying to explain about getting the right 'package' for the stall/torque converter.

http://youtu.be/hkOTpWVTLc8

I really hope this car turns out to be more than just a 'cool looking' car... bouncedriving

Edited to add this http://youtu.be/z5G2zQ_3xTc if anybody else was wondering about how stall converters work. This makes autos 'sexy' and I'm beginning to understand those hi-rev drag launches I've seen at Santa-Pod coolhttp://youtu.be/YdhvPB3piUA

Edited by GruFFnuTT on Wednesday 21st May 02:09

MyM8V8

9,457 posts

195 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
The only problem with high stalls is cruising around town at 30 mph (low speeds) and the motor is revving at 2500 rpm (until you reach such a speed that the convertor locks). You can look a bit of a dick tbh.

The guy in the Jap turd clip had a trans brake which is different to foot braking it. (Trans brake holds the gearbox in two gears until you let it go)

Here's a better description, HTH.

http://www.competitionplus.com/03_25_2004/converte...

ringram

14,700 posts

248 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
The Camaro had a 3500 stall. Yeah low speed wasnt too bad as it would still move, but rather than a level foot you ended up stabbling the throttle so flash stall it to get moving then drop throttle down to maintain speed smile

Sounds like yours is designed for abuse, so dont go light on the throttle..

Having played around with the stock ~1800 and aftermarket 3500 stall the summary seems to be stall should match cam and gearing.. no surprise there.

So low stall for PD FI stuff, higher stall for larger cams and taller gears etc.
For a daily lower stalls are more efficient. Higher stalls by definition are less efficient so you can probably gain a lot of economy with a better stall and gears.. (Aside from the cam and engine considerations..)

Blah, blah, your car is setup for high rpm power and high performance/acceleration. At low rpm its very inefficient.
If you want it efficient around town there are quite a few things that you should look at..

- Carb manifold and carb (dual plane, vacuum secondaries are best for street/econ)
- Heads (Small port high velocity best, which means 2v heads)
- Cam (22x duration at 0.050 for street)
- Rear gears (high 2.x or low 3.x range for daily use IMO)
- stall (low 2k range best)

You may find the spec of some parts already match the above, but I suspect not frown
The good news is parts are probably cheap.

Depends on your requirements. High performance tire shredder, or old skool tourer etc..

Coatesy351

861 posts

132 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
It's a common myth that the car wont move till it reaches the stall speed,not true at all. On light throttle openings it will move away normally, when you get heavier on the throttle it will jump up to the stall speed. I should try and make you a quick vid of me driving mine around and do a launch. One thing i would do is check that it has an external trans cooler fitted as higher stall speeds generate more heat. If you wanted lower rpms while cruising you could fit an overdrive to the c6 from here http://www.gearvendors.com/ but they are very pricey.

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
This is all slowly beginning to make a bit more sense now.
It explains a lot as to why the car felt so underpowered. My first test drive of it nearly ended the dream, as it just seemed to not want to go anywhere from low revs (not setup for inner city London traffic then?). The chap I bought it from didn't seem to know anything either and perhaps that's why he sold it on as it wasn't what he expected either. It was like the blind leading the blind... laugh

As you say Ringram, if this car is setup to take some abuse with high-rev standing start acceleration, then I need to learn how to 'drive' this thing and get the best out of it. I'd be reluctant to want to change it to suit me and ruin a potentially quick car.

I've only been to Santa Pod once and had three runs in my manual car (Ro VXR) and of course Thunder Road. I'm no drag racer (yet wink), but I want to learn how to drive this car. As ARAF said previously, "there's a lot about this car that many of us (including me) don't know much about".
If it wasn't for this forum, I'd be totally clueless...

Anyone fancy giving me a drag lesson? (Please no Conchita jokes!!!) hehe

Edited by GruFFnuTT on Wednesday 21st May 12:08

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
Coatesy351 said:
I should try and make you a quick vid of me driving mine around and do a launch. One thing i would do is check that it has an external trans cooler fitted as higher stall speeds generate more heat.
yes Yeah, make a vid!!! That'd be cool... I'll have a look and see if I can see a trans cooler. thumbup

Coatesy351

861 posts

132 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
GruFFnuTT said:
yes Yeah, make a vid!!! That'd be cool... I'll have a look and see if I can see a trans cooler. thumbup
I'll see if i can find the go pro i just moved house. Its not unusual for people to drive a car with a higher stall speed and think it has no go. The do feel bit sluggish till you get on it.

ringram

14,700 posts

248 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
Coatesy351 said:
On light throttle openings it will move away normally
No it doesnt, engine RPM is much higher for a set speed, so while you can drive off "ok", its not what you would define "normal" IMO biggrin

ringram

14,700 posts

248 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
Gruff, give it chit then is the summary.
Heavy throttle and high RPM, thats what it sounds like it wants. It will tear chit up, burn gas, but be fun. Probably the whole point of it.

Its not for groceries or cruises. Its for burnouts, drifting, power oversteer and drags.

GruFFnuTT

1,642 posts

195 months

Wednesday 21st May 2014
quotequote all
Haha... I'll give it a go!!! Sounds perfect!!!
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