Finance question
Discussion
Hi,
I'm looking at financing an X5. Had a quote put to me at the weekend which involved my part exchange (7k by their valuation) PLUS a 5k cash input. So £12k deposit. That seems a lot. Payments were then approx. £800 a month over 3 years. It was quite high spec and the price after dealer contribution was around what broadspeed are quoting for a new car ordered through them.
Having always bought cash before, I'm a bit new to this finance malarkey and not sure which bits are open to them stitching you up. Is the rate a "standard" rate from BMW finance ? This is a pre-registered car so not sure if that will make a difference (so being sold used, I presume used car rates apply). I'm wondering if the rate is likely to be negotiable.
Can they stitch you up on the residual i.e. get you to pay too much up front by stipulating a low residual value?
The car is quite heavily discounted from new list price so I am not expecting much of a dealer contribution.
Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I'm looking at financing an X5. Had a quote put to me at the weekend which involved my part exchange (7k by their valuation) PLUS a 5k cash input. So £12k deposit. That seems a lot. Payments were then approx. £800 a month over 3 years. It was quite high spec and the price after dealer contribution was around what broadspeed are quoting for a new car ordered through them.
Having always bought cash before, I'm a bit new to this finance malarkey and not sure which bits are open to them stitching you up. Is the rate a "standard" rate from BMW finance ? This is a pre-registered car so not sure if that will make a difference (so being sold used, I presume used car rates apply). I'm wondering if the rate is likely to be negotiable.
Can they stitch you up on the residual i.e. get you to pay too much up front by stipulating a low residual value?
The car is quite heavily discounted from new list price so I am not expecting much of a dealer contribution.
Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
If you can live with the standard spec. the you can hire one for 3 years with £1800 down and £598 a month.
That includes full maintainance and tyres for the 48 months as well, and I am sure adding pro media doesn't put the payments up as it is such an essential option.
Remember the new X5 is around the corner, as soon as that is advertised as coming those contract hire deals will be at £399 a month I promise you.
Buying new now is madness imho.
EDIT: http://www.1stchoicevehiclefinance.co.uk/quotation...
That includes full maintainance and tyres for the 48 months as well, and I am sure adding pro media doesn't put the payments up as it is such an essential option.
Remember the new X5 is around the corner, as soon as that is advertised as coming those contract hire deals will be at £399 a month I promise you.
Buying new now is madness imho.
EDIT: http://www.1stchoicevehiclefinance.co.uk/quotation...
I presume, as you mentioned residual, you're talking about a PCP?
PCPs don't usually work very well on used cars.
If you just want an "X5" for 3yrs for the lowest monthly cost then have a look at the offers on BMWs website - you can get a new X5 3.0d for £539/mth with a £9K deposit.
But what model and spec is the one you're looking at? What mileage limits? What do you intend to do with the car when the 3yrs is up?
PCPs don't usually work very well on used cars.
If you just want an "X5" for 3yrs for the lowest monthly cost then have a look at the offers on BMWs website - you can get a new X5 3.0d for £539/mth with a £9K deposit.
But what model and spec is the one you're looking at? What mileage limits? What do you intend to do with the car when the 3yrs is up?
Would need to know the exact details of the finance quote before commenting on wether its a good deal or not, but the numbers you quote for a new X5 look good assuming you were buying it outright.
Information that would help:
1) Is it personal finance, PCP or HP?
2) If on PCP is their a balloon payment at the end of the 3 years?
3) What APR are they quoting? This is very negotiable.
Either way its worth getting an external finance quote to compare the offer from BMW with, try Lombards.
Information that would help:
1) Is it personal finance, PCP or HP?
2) If on PCP is their a balloon payment at the end of the 3 years?
3) What APR are they quoting? This is very negotiable.
Either way its worth getting an external finance quote to compare the offer from BMW with, try Lombards.
Thanks guys. It is a high spec 40d M Sport with just about every option I would want, pre-registered.
The finance I was previously offered was over the phone, the balloon was about 25k from memory but he didn't mention an APR, he referred to it as being a "personal lease purchase" or something like that but the idea was you had the option to buy it at the end which I thought was PCP.
I'm going to ask the guy to quote on the car in question now (the original quote I had was way too much and didn't seem to be any room for manouvre which there should be on an "old model" just before new one comes out in my view).
This car now in question is approx £64k list price, it is being offered for £52,995 which seems like a pretty good discount to me. Not sure if I'll get more off the car itself but will get a finance quote to see what they propose.
I'm not sure how to think about the deposit - I like the sound of a few k deposit rather than the 7k (p/x) plus 5k cash the quote I already have requires, I presume putting in more deposit reduces the monthly payments so you don't get "stitched up" with a higher deposit if the car price, APR and residual are ok?
The finance I was previously offered was over the phone, the balloon was about 25k from memory but he didn't mention an APR, he referred to it as being a "personal lease purchase" or something like that but the idea was you had the option to buy it at the end which I thought was PCP.
I'm going to ask the guy to quote on the car in question now (the original quote I had was way too much and didn't seem to be any room for manouvre which there should be on an "old model" just before new one comes out in my view).
This car now in question is approx £64k list price, it is being offered for £52,995 which seems like a pretty good discount to me. Not sure if I'll get more off the car itself but will get a finance quote to see what they propose.
I'm not sure how to think about the deposit - I like the sound of a few k deposit rather than the 7k (p/x) plus 5k cash the quote I already have requires, I presume putting in more deposit reduces the monthly payments so you don't get "stitched up" with a higher deposit if the car price, APR and residual are ok?
Edited by silverous on Tuesday 7th May 17:01
This is why finance spooks me... I've now been offered 1100 deposit plus 1100 a month for 48 months. No mention of APR or residual, the car "can be mine" for that. So is it PCP? Are they being deliberately unclear... I'd asked for 3 years term, over 3 years the payments and deposit are almost the value of the car and higher deposit and monthly amount than I was offered on a car much closer to list price. I guess I have to compare all factors to be sure it is a good deal. This is why I like cash, maybe it is the way forward, at least I know what price I'm paying 
When I challenged what seemed like a bad deal the salesman said he can only offer "standard rate" finance, I need to go in to meet the business manager to get low rate finance..... What on earth is that about?
When I challenged what seemed like a bad deal the salesman said he can only offer "standard rate" finance, I need to go in to meet the business manager to get low rate finance..... What on earth is that about?
silverous said:
This is why finance spooks me... I've now been offered 1100 deposit plus 1100 a month for 48 months. No mention of APR or residual, the car "can be mine" for that.
Does that still include the value of your p/x?When they say "can be mine" do they mean forever, or for 4 years?
silverous said:
So is it PCP?
If you don't know then there's not much chance of anyone else knowing.silverous said:
Are they being deliberately unclear...
Yep. I might have taken finance on our Golf but the dealer wouldn't give a written quote.silverous said:
This is why finance spooks me... I've now been offered 1100 deposit plus 1100 a month for 48 months. No mention of APR or residual, the car "can be mine" for that. So is it PCP?
No, that is HP - total cost of £53900. (Or £60k if that includes your PX). Whats the sticker price on the car?I've been around the same loop recently, looking to swop our 6yr old X5 for something newer.
Spec'd a new 3.0d SE X5 with loads of options, list £58k. Take off the dealer and bmw discount and that leaves it at £50k. My numbers were £5k deposit and 47 payments of £768, £17k final payment (PCP, 10k mls, 5.9% APR). I was expecting a better deal. Bottom line is BMW think its going to be worth £17k in 4yrs, that's £33k depreciation. I've heard they have stopped making X5s, tooling up for the new one.
I'd love a newer X5 but the F10 estates look so much better value.
Spec'd a new 3.0d SE X5 with loads of options, list £58k. Take off the dealer and bmw discount and that leaves it at £50k. My numbers were £5k deposit and 47 payments of £768, £17k final payment (PCP, 10k mls, 5.9% APR). I was expecting a better deal. Bottom line is BMW think its going to be worth £17k in 4yrs, that's £33k depreciation. I've heard they have stopped making X5s, tooling up for the new one.
I'd love a newer X5 but the F10 estates look so much better value.
It's not rocket science, it might just appear that way. I've had lots of different finance options over the years and there are some great deals on the high street too (if you have a bigger deposit).
1st rule is; all cars depreciate - the bigger they are the harder they fall. X5's used to be an exception to the rule, but no more. I lost £12k on one in 18 months. So try and make sure you monthly payments cover the depreciation and you'll always be able to walk away with your deposit.
Always look at the APR, it takes into account all fees etc. I've always looked to pay between 7-9% on Approved Used. Dealers will really try it on by quoting you the flat rate etc, but ignore that - you need to ask them what the APR is. Get that low and then it just depends on how much deposit you want to put down and how much you can haggle off the car.
More up front, less per month. Simples.
I always used to put down more deposit (40-50%), finance the rest over 5yrs with a Bank loan. If you sell after 2 years you can clear the loan with the equity in the car (no fees) and walk away with your deposit - my monthly payments would always match the depreciation.
There must be dozens of approved used cars kicking about, not tempted by one of those?
1st rule is; all cars depreciate - the bigger they are the harder they fall. X5's used to be an exception to the rule, but no more. I lost £12k on one in 18 months. So try and make sure you monthly payments cover the depreciation and you'll always be able to walk away with your deposit.
Always look at the APR, it takes into account all fees etc. I've always looked to pay between 7-9% on Approved Used. Dealers will really try it on by quoting you the flat rate etc, but ignore that - you need to ask them what the APR is. Get that low and then it just depends on how much deposit you want to put down and how much you can haggle off the car.
More up front, less per month. Simples.
I always used to put down more deposit (40-50%), finance the rest over 5yrs with a Bank loan. If you sell after 2 years you can clear the loan with the equity in the car (no fees) and walk away with your deposit - my monthly payments would always match the depreciation.
There must be dozens of approved used cars kicking about, not tempted by one of those?
Deva Link said:
Yep. I might have taken finance on our Golf but the dealer wouldn't give a written quote.
The new finance deal doesn't include p/x yet but that itsn't the point, I know what impact that should have.I don't know re PCP because he hasn't told me yet, so if I don't know there definitely is someone who does
AndrewO said:
I've been around the same loop recently, looking to swop our 6yr old X5 for something newer.
Spec'd a new 3.0d SE X5 with loads of options, list £58k. Take off the dealer and bmw discount and that leaves it at £50k. My numbers were £5k deposit and 47 payments of £768, £17k final payment (PCP, 10k mls, 5.9% APR). I was expecting a better deal. Bottom line is BMW think its going to be worth £17k in 4yrs, that's £33k depreciation. I've heard they have stopped making X5s, tooling up for the new one.
I'd love a newer X5 but the F10 estates look so much better value.
Blimey 58k is a bit rich for a 30d SE, I'm looking at a 40d with all the toys pre reg at 52,999.Spec'd a new 3.0d SE X5 with loads of options, list £58k. Take off the dealer and bmw discount and that leaves it at £50k. My numbers were £5k deposit and 47 payments of £768, £17k final payment (PCP, 10k mls, 5.9% APR). I was expecting a better deal. Bottom line is BMW think its going to be worth £17k in 4yrs, that's £33k depreciation. I've heard they have stopped making X5s, tooling up for the new one.
I'd love a newer X5 but the F10 estates look so much better value.
silverous said:
Blimey 58k is a bit rich for a 30d SE, I'm looking at a 40d with all the toys pre reg at 52,999.
You do realise it's basically the same, 3 litre, engine, don't you?silverous said:
I've looked but like the new car thing and a 64k list price car for 52,999 is getting on for used price with this spec
The one you're looking at isn't new though. Is it on zero miles?You mentioned in your OP that you could get one new through Broadspeed for the same price so that makes the one you're looking at seem far too dear.
Deva Link said:
silverous said:
Blimey 58k is a bit rich for a 30d SE, I'm looking at a 40d with all the toys pre reg at 52,999.
You do realise it's basically the same, 3 litre, engine, don't you?
silverous said:
I've looked but like the new car thing and a 64k list price car for 52,999 is getting on for used price with this spec smile
The one you're looking at isn't new though. Is it on zero miles?
You mentioned in your OP that you could get one new through Broadspeed for the same price so that makes the one you're looking at seem far too dear.
1) I am fully aware of that but a) it is M sport and b) It is a 40d for a reason (twin turbo from memory). I'm not sure what your point is. My point wasn't to argue about engine specification just that it seemed a lot for a 30d SE which is clearly a cheaper car.Blimey 58k is a bit rich for a 30d SE, I'm looking at a 40d with all the toys pre reg at 52,999.
You do realise it's basically the same, 3 litre, engine, don't you?
silverous said:
I've looked but like the new car thing and a 64k list price car for 52,999 is getting on for used price with this spec smile
The one you're looking at isn't new though. Is it on zero miles?
You mentioned in your OP that you could get one new through Broadspeed for the same price so that makes the one you're looking at seem far too dear.
2) It is on delivery miles so is effectively new although it has had one owner. Broadspeed comparison was to the original car I was looking at in high 50s. The car I'm currently looking at would be at least 57-58k on Broadspeed (as opposed to 52,999 and available now, not with a 3 month wait) and I believe production has stopped anyway.
There is method in my madness
Based on what you have said it maybe that the dealer is offering for you to buy the car outright for around £53,900 (48 x £1100 + deposit). If you want to own your vehicle in 4 years time this may be the way to go.
If lower monthly installments are preferable I would contact an external finance company as i am certain you would get a better deal this way. I used Lombards and ended up financing £33k over 5 years at 6% APR (about £420 a month). They will insist on a 10% deposit. Based on your rough numbers, £53k list minus a 10% deposit leaves £47.7k to finance, i reckon you could end up paying between £600 and £750 a month depending on the agreed residual value and length of finance contract.
If you would like a contact number I am happy to recommend the person I dealt with.
If lower monthly installments are preferable I would contact an external finance company as i am certain you would get a better deal this way. I used Lombards and ended up financing £33k over 5 years at 6% APR (about £420 a month). They will insist on a 10% deposit. Based on your rough numbers, £53k list minus a 10% deposit leaves £47.7k to finance, i reckon you could end up paying between £600 and £750 a month depending on the agreed residual value and length of finance contract.
If you would like a contact number I am happy to recommend the person I dealt with.
gizlaroc said:
I know when the 7 series was on run out there was a BMW contribution of £14000 and then the dealer gave another £6000 on top, that was a £61k car and we paid just over £40k for it, so don't be so sure the dealer can't give a big discount on top.
Thanks, that is handy to know. Our local dealer is claiming they are like hens teeth with this spec, as is this dealer in his own way, but then I guess they would say that. Certainly the first one we looked at went pretty quickly. I'm not going to feel rushed though as I presume it will lose a lot of its value given the new one coming out.JRBM5 said:
Based on what you have said it maybe that the dealer is offering for you to buy the car outright for around £53,900 (48 x £1100 + deposit). If you want to own your vehicle in 4 years time this may be the way to go.
If lower monthly installments are preferable I would contact an external finance company as i am certain you would get a better deal this way. I used Lombards and ended up financing £33k over 5 years at 6% APR (about £420 a month). They will insist on a 10% deposit. Based on your rough numbers, £53k list minus a 10% deposit leaves £47.7k to finance, i reckon you could end up paying between £600 and £750 a month depending on the agreed residual value and length of finance contract.
If you would like a contact number I am happy to recommend the person I dealt with.
Thanks, do you have to be a business to deal with Lombard? I've seen their name quite a few times.If lower monthly installments are preferable I would contact an external finance company as i am certain you would get a better deal this way. I used Lombards and ended up financing £33k over 5 years at 6% APR (about £420 a month). They will insist on a 10% deposit. Based on your rough numbers, £53k list minus a 10% deposit leaves £47.7k to finance, i reckon you could end up paying between £600 and £750 a month depending on the agreed residual value and length of finance contract.
If you would like a contact number I am happy to recommend the person I dealt with.
I think you might be right about outright in which case it is only about 1k over 4 years for the finance but that seems too cheap. Not heard from them since.
The thing I don't get with residuals is what to look out for - aren't they likely to suggest a lower residual than is likely so that you pay more up front and the interest on that?
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