Non-payment of expenses - advice please
Discussion
I am leaving my current employer next Friday after serving my statutory 4 weeks notice plus an extra week that they asked me to put in to ensure successful handover.
My expenses claim was put in a couple of days before I handed my notice in and was approved by the MD. I've checked my bank account today and whilst my salary was paid on time there is no sign of my expenses, which total around £2,700.
I had to put a new tyre on the company car last week, and when I entered my claim it was again approved promptly. However when I passed the receipt to the FD, my MD made a sarcastic comment along the lines of "it will be added to the list, if you moan about being added to the list, then you won't get on the list". This was said in a jokey fashion in front of the whole office, but when I'm already almost 3 grand out of pocket, it's not very funny anymore!
Now I know the company is skint, part of the reason I'm leaving tbh, are well behind on their rent plus many other bills. So there is a good chance I may not see this money again, or not for some time anyway.
We recently let a US sales guy go and he was kept waiting for his expenses until he threatened legal action. Now I really don't want things to end on a bad note, but do I need to do the same and do it quickly?
Should I hang on to company property until payment is made, or is that classed as stealing? I have a laptop, iPad, iPhone and company car (although this belongs to the lease company not my company). Should I explain that I plan to remove said tyre and sell it if not reimbursed, and they can have the hassle of collecting the car without the tyre?
As I said I don't want to get petty, and I'm almost resigned to the fact that I may never see the money again. But if there is anything I can do I'd appreciate the advice.
Cheers
Anthony
My expenses claim was put in a couple of days before I handed my notice in and was approved by the MD. I've checked my bank account today and whilst my salary was paid on time there is no sign of my expenses, which total around £2,700.
I had to put a new tyre on the company car last week, and when I entered my claim it was again approved promptly. However when I passed the receipt to the FD, my MD made a sarcastic comment along the lines of "it will be added to the list, if you moan about being added to the list, then you won't get on the list". This was said in a jokey fashion in front of the whole office, but when I'm already almost 3 grand out of pocket, it's not very funny anymore!
Now I know the company is skint, part of the reason I'm leaving tbh, are well behind on their rent plus many other bills. So there is a good chance I may not see this money again, or not for some time anyway.
We recently let a US sales guy go and he was kept waiting for his expenses until he threatened legal action. Now I really don't want things to end on a bad note, but do I need to do the same and do it quickly?
Should I hang on to company property until payment is made, or is that classed as stealing? I have a laptop, iPad, iPhone and company car (although this belongs to the lease company not my company). Should I explain that I plan to remove said tyre and sell it if not reimbursed, and they can have the hassle of collecting the car without the tyre?
As I said I don't want to get petty, and I'm almost resigned to the fact that I may never see the money again. But if there is anything I can do I'd appreciate the advice.
Cheers
Anthony
Personally I wouldn't go as far as say "I'm holding onto this lot until my expenses are paid" but it might be an idea to say something like 'sorry I'm swamped at the moment, really sorry, I'll drop it all over to you next week - by the way, I'm still waiting for my expenses'.
By the sounds of it, they're going to need some motivation to pay you what they owe over the landlord, suppliers etc etc.
By the sounds of it, they're going to need some motivation to pay you what they owe over the landlord, suppliers etc etc.
antspants said:
I am leaving my current employer next Friday after serving my statutory 4 weeks notice plus an extra week that they asked me to put in to ensure successful handover.
My expenses claim was put in a couple of days before I handed my notice in and was approved by the MD. I've checked my bank account today and whilst my salary was paid on time there is no sign of my expenses, which total around £2,700.
I had to put a new tyre on the company car last week, and when I entered my claim it was again approved promptly. However when I passed the receipt to the FD, my MD made a sarcastic comment along the lines of "it will be added to the list, if you moan about being added to the list, then you won't get on the list". This was said in a jokey fashion in front of the whole office, but when I'm already almost 3 grand out of pocket, it's not very funny anymore!
Now I know the company is skint, part of the reason I'm leaving tbh, are well behind on their rent plus many other bills. So there is a good chance I may not see this money again, or not for some time anyway.
We recently let a US sales guy go and he was kept waiting for his expenses until he threatened legal action. Now I really don't want things to end on a bad note, but do I need to do the same and do it quickly?
Should I hang on to company property until payment is made, or is that classed as stealing? I have a laptop, iPad, iPhone and company car (although this belongs to the lease company not my company). Should I explain that I plan to remove said tyre and sell it if not reimbursed, and they can have the hassle of collecting the car without the tyre?
As I said I don't want to get petty, and I'm almost resigned to the fact that I may never see the money again. But if there is anything I can do I'd appreciate the advice.
Cheers
Anthony
Keep everything until their debts are cleared, say oh, sorry the laptop, company car etc are elsewhere and I dont have any cash at the moment because I'm still waiting for £2,700 worth of expenses.My expenses claim was put in a couple of days before I handed my notice in and was approved by the MD. I've checked my bank account today and whilst my salary was paid on time there is no sign of my expenses, which total around £2,700.
I had to put a new tyre on the company car last week, and when I entered my claim it was again approved promptly. However when I passed the receipt to the FD, my MD made a sarcastic comment along the lines of "it will be added to the list, if you moan about being added to the list, then you won't get on the list". This was said in a jokey fashion in front of the whole office, but when I'm already almost 3 grand out of pocket, it's not very funny anymore!
Now I know the company is skint, part of the reason I'm leaving tbh, are well behind on their rent plus many other bills. So there is a good chance I may not see this money again, or not for some time anyway.
We recently let a US sales guy go and he was kept waiting for his expenses until he threatened legal action. Now I really don't want things to end on a bad note, but do I need to do the same and do it quickly?
Should I hang on to company property until payment is made, or is that classed as stealing? I have a laptop, iPad, iPhone and company car (although this belongs to the lease company not my company). Should I explain that I plan to remove said tyre and sell it if not reimbursed, and they can have the hassle of collecting the car without the tyre?
As I said I don't want to get petty, and I'm almost resigned to the fact that I may never see the money again. But if there is anything I can do I'd appreciate the advice.
Cheers
Anthony
How the hell you have let your expenses get that high is beyond me, I used to kick off when it got to £300 at my old company!!
Just speak to the FD, say Just had a quick look at my pay for last month, I noticed that the expenses weren't paid. Could you tell me when they will be paid please.
Can no one these days speak to their employers in a reasonable fashion?
What is the worst that can happen - they can't tell you you are never going to get them, and if they get cross, what do you care your leaving anyway.
Just ask, and see what happens.
Gargamel - that's my intention on Monday, however I already know what his answer will be, which is why I'm asking what my next action should be.
I intended to be in the office every day next week, which would include handover of car mid-week and then of company equipment on Friday. Obviously if I'm there, retaining that equipment is going to be vey difficult, and why should I incur additional costs to get home the day I drop my car off when my expenses are outstanding.
Rich - you're absolutely right I shouldn't have let them get so high, try to do somebody a favour and it comes back to bite you. Shan't be doing it again!
ToxicNerve - they did ramp up quickly, however I've then sat on them to try and do the company a favour while they were a bit strapped. Stupid and naive! Oh and I'm concerned that if I leave it another payroll cycle, by which time I won't be there anymore, I'm out of sight out of mind.
I'll speak to the FD on Monday, if I get the response I'm expecting then I'll ask him to commit a date for them to be paid by. If he can't do that then I need to consider whether I go in for the rest of the week, and whether I return their equipment.
I intended to be in the office every day next week, which would include handover of car mid-week and then of company equipment on Friday. Obviously if I'm there, retaining that equipment is going to be vey difficult, and why should I incur additional costs to get home the day I drop my car off when my expenses are outstanding.
Rich - you're absolutely right I shouldn't have let them get so high, try to do somebody a favour and it comes back to bite you. Shan't be doing it again!
ToxicNerve - they did ramp up quickly, however I've then sat on them to try and do the company a favour while they were a bit strapped. Stupid and naive! Oh and I'm concerned that if I leave it another payroll cycle, by which time I won't be there anymore, I'm out of sight out of mind.
I'll speak to the FD on Monday, if I get the response I'm expecting then I'll ask him to commit a date for them to be paid by. If he can't do that then I need to consider whether I go in for the rest of the week, and whether I return their equipment.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'd say that's very uncommon. Anyone doing that level of travel should be booking through their company's corporate travel agent (we're tiny and we have one) and will have a company credit card (same again).It's also pretty standard to have a float equal to a typical months' out-of-pocket expenses, so you're not usually spending your own money.
I'm surprised they would pay up on threat of legal action - it's a very easy threat to make and you could get a solicitor to send a letter before action for a few quid.
Hanging on to company property is a can of worms - it could descend into them reporting the items stolen and then pulling the shutters down on any discussion.
Edited by Deva Link on Friday 10th May 14:25
Deva Link said:
Hanging on to company property is a can of worms - it could descend into them reporting the items stolen and then pulling the shutters down on any discussion.
Yes this is the bit I'm worried about! The business owner/MD can be a spiteful, childish, vindictive git when he wants to be, and I could see him doing exactly that.
Deva Link said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'd say that's very uncommon. Anyone doing that level of travel should be booking through their company's corporate travel agent (we're tiny and we have one) and will have a company credit card (same again).It's also pretty standard to have a float equal to a typical months' out-of-pocket expenses, so you're not usually spending your own money.
[/footnote]
We book a lot through Corporate Traveller, but WE pick up the expense on our own card.
Here is the good bit (for me anyway). We get paid expenses weekly, so most of the time I am quids in, money in my current account, offsetting my mortgage, you just need to be fully disciplined in keeping track of the card, it really is a doddle when you are as tight as me though.
By the way, I work for a multi bilion(now)$ turnover company, based in the USA.
It is fun at times though
750turbo said:
IMO, not always true. We pay for our own, although we were given the option of an Amex card, albeit in our own name! (And who takes Amex over here)
Obviously it won't always be true, but I would suggest it is mostly the case.Amex is pretty widely accepted now - generally it's only small independant places that won't take it. There is something a bit weird about the card we have (an HSBC coporate charge card) - I think we did have to personally guarantee to pay it if the employer fails. I don't use it anyway, I use my own Amex card (hence I know it mostly works).
Deva Link said:
Obviously it won't always be true, but I would suggest it is mostly the case.
Amex is pretty widely accepted now - generally it's only small independant places that won't take it. There is something a bit weird about the card we have (an HSBC coporate charge card) - I think we did have to personally guarantee to pay it if the employer fails. I don't use it anyway, I use my own Amex card (hence I know it mostly works).
Sorry, but I struggle to get anyone to accept Amex. Talking to my friendly Hotel Manager, there are a couple of reasons.Amex is pretty widely accepted now - generally it's only small independant places that won't take it. There is something a bit weird about the card we have (an HSBC coporate charge card) - I think we did have to personally guarantee to pay it if the employer fails. I don't use it anyway, I use my own Amex card (hence I know it mostly works).
The charges are far higher than most other cards.
Apparently payment to them can take up to 3 months! Shocking.
I do not like the personal guarantee, that is a bit cheeky Deva Link!
antspants said:
Yes this is the bit I'm worried about!
The business owner/MD can be a spiteful, childish, vindictive git when he wants to be, and I could see him doing exactly that.
It's a chunky amount of money and ideally they should clear it as you leave, or in the normal payment cycle if that's later. If they delay and you are seriously concerned they'll go down then you ought to move quickly and threaten, and then take, action against them.The business owner/MD can be a spiteful, childish, vindictive git when he wants to be, and I could see him doing exactly that.
Ok so I think the sensible thing to do is speak to the FD and find out when they'll be paid, if the answer is not satisfactory then take legal action. But as far as retaining company property until they do, that approach is best avoided.
Appreciate the advice, I'll update the thread next week.
Appreciate the advice, I'll update the thread next week.
Legal action can simply be a demand to pay within 5-7 days, followed by initiating a winding up order against the company. That will either force them to pay you or force them under, but its their choice to make as to which way it goes.
I take it you have copies of all the receipts etc..?
I take it you have copies of all the receipts etc..?
Don't even think of keeping or threatening to keep company property - this will bring you down to their level and could threaten any future legal action against them for non payment and may even leave you open to prosecution (IANAL).
Best bet is to ask politely for the expenses and date for payment.
If this is not forthcoming I'd follow up with a letter - still no threat of legal action.
If no payment after another week, then time for a solicitor I'd say.
Best bet is to ask politely for the expenses and date for payment.
If this is not forthcoming I'd follow up with a letter - still no threat of legal action.
If no payment after another week, then time for a solicitor I'd say.
Quick update... I've kept things on a very friendly footing all week, just explaining to the FD that I would like some commitment from him as to when my expenses will be paid before I leave. Spoken again this afternoon and he's told me he is confident he will pay them next week as he is expecting to receive a number of payments that will provide some much needed cash.
Obviously this isn't a cast iron guarantee but I'm more hopeful than I was this time last week. My wife and I had essentially written the money off as we know the financial mire the company is in, so it will be an unexpected bonus if it gets paid
Thanks for the advice
Obviously this isn't a cast iron guarantee but I'm more hopeful than I was this time last week. My wife and I had essentially written the money off as we know the financial mire the company is in, so it will be an unexpected bonus if it gets paid
Thanks for the advice
Well quelle surprise they weren't paid!
I've been assured that he will do his best to pay them in the 2nd week of June, the first week being when all their regular monthly income is received. If it doesn't get paid then I think I can kiss it goodbye and will need to resort to the legal action recommended.
The only positive news is that they are paying my last months wages tomorrow, as I was starting to worry about that as well!
I've been assured that he will do his best to pay them in the 2nd week of June, the first week being when all their regular monthly income is received. If it doesn't get paid then I think I can kiss it goodbye and will need to resort to the legal action recommended.
The only positive news is that they are paying my last months wages tomorrow, as I was starting to worry about that as well!
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