Logbook loan help
Discussion
Not sure if anyone can help on this, but struggling to get information.
basically this morning i was round my parents and my mums Uncle ( lovely guy from up North) phoned her up. He's in his mid 80's now but still got his head on shoulders, clever guy.
Anyway, he is in tears on phone as he has had a visit from bailiffs looking to reposess his car due to money owed on it. He was not aware of any money owed on it , but he changed the registered keeper of the car back last year as he is unable to drive and his son who lives with him does, so he registered it in his sons name for insurance etc.
Anyway sad t
t of a son ( a guy in his 50's i add) has got into trouble with gambling debts and decided to get a logbook loan on the car. Important thing here is despite the son being registered keeper the car has never been sold to the son or gifted in any way. The dad still has ownership of the car and has proof of purchase in 2006 when he bought it new from Skoda.
My parents are lending him the money as he only has his pension , has a house worth 170k and is selling it now to move into rented house instead of leaving the equity in there. His bank would not help him due to his age and the bailiffs have given until the 26th.
Now we can pay it no problems and sort it out latter as its family. However i am not sure of the legalities of a registered keeper but not owner doing this. Can they still chase him if he can prove the car is his and he has never sold , only changed registered keeper for health reasons ( his eyesight is too bad to drive now)
If anyone could help or point me in the right direction as i hate these blodd sucking leaches. We are going up there the following week to have words with the son as i also want this stopped as he could do this again or something worse. Spent the whole day worrying over this and its not even my close family.
basically this morning i was round my parents and my mums Uncle ( lovely guy from up North) phoned her up. He's in his mid 80's now but still got his head on shoulders, clever guy.
Anyway, he is in tears on phone as he has had a visit from bailiffs looking to reposess his car due to money owed on it. He was not aware of any money owed on it , but he changed the registered keeper of the car back last year as he is unable to drive and his son who lives with him does, so he registered it in his sons name for insurance etc.
Anyway sad t
t of a son ( a guy in his 50's i add) has got into trouble with gambling debts and decided to get a logbook loan on the car. Important thing here is despite the son being registered keeper the car has never been sold to the son or gifted in any way. The dad still has ownership of the car and has proof of purchase in 2006 when he bought it new from Skoda.My parents are lending him the money as he only has his pension , has a house worth 170k and is selling it now to move into rented house instead of leaving the equity in there. His bank would not help him due to his age and the bailiffs have given until the 26th.
Now we can pay it no problems and sort it out latter as its family. However i am not sure of the legalities of a registered keeper but not owner doing this. Can they still chase him if he can prove the car is his and he has never sold , only changed registered keeper for health reasons ( his eyesight is too bad to drive now)
If anyone could help or point me in the right direction as i hate these blodd sucking leaches. We are going up there the following week to have words with the son as i also want this stopped as he could do this again or something worse. Spent the whole day worrying over this and its not even my close family.
The Owner and Registered Keeper are definitely different 'people' from a legal point of view. (In reality it could be the same person, but it definitely doesn't need to be.)
Look at the V5 (logbook) and you'll see a MASSIVE BANNER which reads "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP". So there's no way that the Son could have given the car away legally.
What he's probably done is CLAIMED to the loan company that he was the owner, when in fact he's not. So he's told a lie, which the Bailiffs are now acting on. I.e. they're trying to take possession of the car which the Son has fraudulently used as security on a loan.
Not sure what the practical next steps are. But it's probably along the lines of getting the Son to admit to the loan company that he lied and has no ownership of the car. Do bear in mind that the loan company and bailiffs will no doubt be very sceptical of this claim - as they may suspect that the Son really was the owner, but has now tried to move the title into his parents name to shield the asset from the bailiffs. You may well need to prove that that isn't the case.
Look at the V5 (logbook) and you'll see a MASSIVE BANNER which reads "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP". So there's no way that the Son could have given the car away legally.
What he's probably done is CLAIMED to the loan company that he was the owner, when in fact he's not. So he's told a lie, which the Bailiffs are now acting on. I.e. they're trying to take possession of the car which the Son has fraudulently used as security on a loan.
Not sure what the practical next steps are. But it's probably along the lines of getting the Son to admit to the loan company that he lied and has no ownership of the car. Do bear in mind that the loan company and bailiffs will no doubt be very sceptical of this claim - as they may suspect that the Son really was the owner, but has now tried to move the title into his parents name to shield the asset from the bailiffs. You may well need to prove that that isn't the case.
Write this off. Morally, the son should repay the family loan.
I have absolutely no doubt that the son put in writing that he owned the car when the loan was taken out. You infer that the statement to the loan company was false. This could become a police matter if a big fuss is made about ownership.
The only blood sucking leech involved in this story is the son. I can't see that the loan company and bailiffs have done anything wrong.
I have absolutely no doubt that the son put in writing that he owned the car when the loan was taken out. You infer that the statement to the loan company was false. This could become a police matter if a big fuss is made about ownership.
The only blood sucking leech involved in this story is the son. I can't see that the loan company and bailiffs have done anything wrong.
cptsideways said:
Who actually has the original V5 logbook, I would have thought any loans would actually the V5 to be seen? If not this implies that arnybody can apply for a loan on any vehicle???
No, you have to be the owner, and registered keeper, and have possession of the car. You have to meet one of the loan company representatives who'll check everything.cptsideways said:
These logbook loans also dont get recorded by HPI if I am correct...
Correct. This is because these guys actually take legal title of the car until you've finished paying.mrmr96 said:
cptsideways said:
Who actually has the original V5 logbook, I would have thought any loans would actually the V5 to be seen? If not this implies that arnybody can apply for a loan on any vehicle???
No, you have to be the owner, and registered keeper, and have possession of the car. You have to meet one of the loan company representatives who'll check everything.cptsideways said:
These logbook loans also dont get recorded by HPI if I am correct...
Correct. This is because these guys actually take legal title of the car until you've finished paying.mrmr96 said:
Correct. This is because these guys actually take legal title of the car until you've finished paying.
A log book loan is actually a conditional bill of sale. A mortgage loan on a house/flat works in exactly the same way.hora said:
So how do you buy a car privately without the risk?
Both keys present?
Original (not a 'duplicate'/resent V5) present
HPI (for the usual)
and..
Get the seller to sign a declaration that there is no other money owing?
I guess that gives you some leverage if/when you need to take the seller to court to recover your loss.Both keys present?
Original (not a 'duplicate'/resent V5) present
HPI (for the usual)
and..
Get the seller to sign a declaration that there is no other money owing?
IF the lender is a member of the CCTA the loan should be listed on a register and this would show up in a history check.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/consumer_s/...
i'd say ask a lawyer if you should fight it
never in a million years are the police going to get involved, they'll just say it's a civil matter
which it is.
if i borrow a watch from a friend for the weekend, and i pawn it, then my friend says he wants it back and i tell him it's in the pawn shop and run away, who owns it then? my friend has a certificate proving ownership, but the pawn shop has it, and they lent money against it which they cannot get back.
I'm not sure if the same laws apply on this, but it is very likely both of these situations are covered quite well by statute law so you should be able to get a reasonably quick answer
never in a million years are the police going to get involved, they'll just say it's a civil matter
which it is.
if i borrow a watch from a friend for the weekend, and i pawn it, then my friend says he wants it back and i tell him it's in the pawn shop and run away, who owns it then? my friend has a certificate proving ownership, but the pawn shop has it, and they lent money against it which they cannot get back.
I'm not sure if the same laws apply on this, but it is very likely both of these situations are covered quite well by statute law so you should be able to get a reasonably quick answer
hora said:
So how do you buy a car privately without the risk?
Both keys present?
Original (not a 'duplicate'/resent V5) present
HPI (for the usual)
and..
Get the seller to sign a declaration that there is no other money owing?
That's one of the big questions facing car buyers these days.Both keys present?
Original (not a 'duplicate'/resent V5) present
HPI (for the usual)
and..
Get the seller to sign a declaration that there is no other money owing?
I'm not sure a declaration would help; I'm pretty sure that a sale implies that the car is theirs to sell.
Snowboy said:
hora said:
So how do you buy a car privately without the risk?
Both keys present?
Original (not a 'duplicate'/resent V5) present
HPI (for the usual)
and..
Get the seller to sign a declaration that there is no other money owing?
That's one of the big questions facing car buyers these days.Both keys present?
Original (not a 'duplicate'/resent V5) present
HPI (for the usual)
and..
Get the seller to sign a declaration that there is no other money owing?
I'm not sure a declaration would help; I'm pretty sure that a sale implies that the car is theirs to sell.
Be wary, there's a long history of people selling things they don't own. Like this guy, who sold the Eiffel Tower. Twice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Lustig
hora said:
Crazy. Theres effectively nothing is there that says x car belongs to x. Crackers.
I know there's certain stuff which has a "title" like land, property. Maybe share certificates? Patents? But there's also loads of stuff which doesn't. Who owns the shoes on your feet? Can you prove it?I agree, though, that a car is one of the most expensive things people will buy and it would make a lot of sense if there was a document of ownership to prove who owns it.
There is no legal requirement for a finance company to register an interest on Hpi.
These logbook loans are a real problem for car buyers. You can get the seller to sign what you want but if they have nothing to go after legally then its a waste of time.
Buy from an established dealer is my advice.
These logbook loans are a real problem for car buyers. You can get the seller to sign what you want but if they have nothing to go after legally then its a waste of time.
Buy from an established dealer is my advice.
POORCARDEALER said:
There is no legal requirement for a finance company to register an interest on Hpi.
These logbook loans are a real problem for car buyers. You can get the seller to sign what you want but if they have nothing to go after legally then its a waste of time.
Buy from an established dealer is my advice.
If a customer conducts an HPI Check, follows HPI's buying guidance, but subsequently finds that the vehicle is subject to a 'Bill of Sale' agreement that was not flagged, the buyer will be protected by the HPI guarantee, which provides financial reimbursement of up to £30,000.These logbook loans are a real problem for car buyers. You can get the seller to sign what you want but if they have nothing to go after legally then its a waste of time.
Buy from an established dealer is my advice.
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