Suitable Car for Britcar
Discussion
Hi Guys
I am looking at running a new team in Britcar next year and was seeking advice on suitable base cars to start out with? So here is my List...
Aston Martin Coupe 4.3 07 model (This one is mine but I am toying with turning it into a racer) What would be needed to do that?
MX5 2.0i (This one would enable me to also run in the MX5 Cup next year. I could tune it for Britcar and detune it for the Cup between rounds)
Nissan 350z
Clio 182 Cup
BMW Z3M Roadster
BMW M3E46 Coupe
So some wildly different cars there
The only one on the list that im unsure of is my Aston. Can that run endurance standard for example or are upgrades needed? Brakes, Suspension, Wheels, Engine mods? Does it need an Ally roll cage or a steel one bolted in? Do Aston runners use Aston parts when/if they crash as of course wings etc are very expensive?
Your thoughts are appreciated
I am looking at running a new team in Britcar next year and was seeking advice on suitable base cars to start out with? So here is my List...
Aston Martin Coupe 4.3 07 model (This one is mine but I am toying with turning it into a racer) What would be needed to do that?
MX5 2.0i (This one would enable me to also run in the MX5 Cup next year. I could tune it for Britcar and detune it for the Cup between rounds)
Nissan 350z
Clio 182 Cup
BMW Z3M Roadster
BMW M3E46 Coupe
So some wildly different cars there
The only one on the list that im unsure of is my Aston. Can that run endurance standard for example or are upgrades needed? Brakes, Suspension, Wheels, Engine mods? Does it need an Ally roll cage or a steel one bolted in? Do Aston runners use Aston parts when/if they crash as of course wings etc are very expensive? Your thoughts are appreciated

Soul Reaver said:
Hi Guys
I am looking at running a new team in Britcar next year and was seeking advice on suitable base cars to start out with? So here is my List...
Hello.... here we go then...I am looking at running a new team in Britcar next year and was seeking advice on suitable base cars to start out with? So here is my List...
Soul Reaver said:
Aston Martin Coupe 4.3 07 model (This one is mine but I am toying with turning it into a racer) What would be needed to do that?
A very very large amount of cash, not only to convert it, but to run it. You could buy and run a new Mosler GT Cup for less I'd wager. A lot less. And be a lot quicker.Soul Reaver said:
MX5 2.0i (This one would enable me to also run in the MX5 Cup next year. I could tune it for Britcar and detune it for the Cup between rounds)
You are excused - this is Piston Heads after all, and there are people that think a MX5 is actually a sportscar!Soul Reaver said:
Nissan 350z
Good call. The later 370z might be a better starting point as it has a few improvements over the 350z.Soul Reaver said:
Clio 182 Cup
A cheaper entry to Production indeed. Lots of bits out there, and companies well equipped to get the best from them.Soul Reaver said:
BMW Z3M Coupe
Edited for a better idea.Soul Reaver said:
BMW M3E46 Coupe
Both Beemers good for the job. The M3 would be the better be in my opinion. A Z4 would be better than a Z3. It's a better chassis. Again, lots of good outfits out there that can do you a good car - Moore Racing, Thorney, and many more.Edited by thunderbelmont on Friday 1st October 20:23
If only it were all that simple. Firstly it is a waste of money building your own car for Britcar unless its some sort of hybrid/unique thing you really have to do! Buy a ready built race car and then adapt from there!
The Astons for example are all ex Prodrive N24's or GT4's (the N24's are very slow but reliable which is why they only well in the 24hr races) the GT4 is much faster but about £50K more to start with.
Ultimately choose your car on your budget and your ambition if your starting fresh. You will almost certainly want/need to upgrade parts of it no mater what you have.
On the choices side of things. A Clio would be a brillaint starting point but sadly the straighline pace of Britcar makes it a somewhat fustrating experience. The old Honda Civics Type R's are much better options because they have scope to gain decent engine power. Only problem with them is they vary in build and spec quality, much like the BMW's.
The BMW's are a mainstay of Britcar BUT the ones that do well have fortunes spent on them and the spec's vary hugely. As Rob say's a Z4 is decent option.
Hope that helps.
The Astons for example are all ex Prodrive N24's or GT4's (the N24's are very slow but reliable which is why they only well in the 24hr races) the GT4 is much faster but about £50K more to start with.
Ultimately choose your car on your budget and your ambition if your starting fresh. You will almost certainly want/need to upgrade parts of it no mater what you have.
On the choices side of things. A Clio would be a brillaint starting point but sadly the straighline pace of Britcar makes it a somewhat fustrating experience. The old Honda Civics Type R's are much better options because they have scope to gain decent engine power. Only problem with them is they vary in build and spec quality, much like the BMW's.
The BMW's are a mainstay of Britcar BUT the ones that do well have fortunes spent on them and the spec's vary hugely. As Rob say's a Z4 is decent option.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for those ideas. I dont agree though that "it's a waste of time building your own car" For me that is at least half of the fun. I am a sucker for engineering, makes me go all gooey. Of course I understand that not everyone is capable to do that. I take your point on the Aston being slow for the class it is in. Even so it would still be fun for me to take my road car and start a project on it. There is a certain devil inside me that is itching to tread that sacred detailed ground and rip the insides of it on a Saturday afternoon 
As for the MX5 comment about it not being a sporstcar. I think that is a moot point. Motorsport is about having fun is it not? From the evidence I have seen and the videos on youtube from Fazad's car that I have watched there are a lot of guys doing just that with little MK1 and MK3 MX5's whilst not selling themselves to the devil financially! The racing is also more interesting and more exciting to watch than some of the boring trains I have seen endlessly going round a circuit not racing at all
Seems like I am down to
BMW E46 or E36 M3
BMW Z4 (The early ones look like they are made from flat pack im afraid)
Nissan 350 z (That one keeps popping up and is now at the top of my shortlist)
Civic Type R (not my favorite car I have to say)
My Aston going slow with only 450bhp but of course looking the tits

As for the MX5 comment about it not being a sporstcar. I think that is a moot point. Motorsport is about having fun is it not? From the evidence I have seen and the videos on youtube from Fazad's car that I have watched there are a lot of guys doing just that with little MK1 and MK3 MX5's whilst not selling themselves to the devil financially! The racing is also more interesting and more exciting to watch than some of the boring trains I have seen endlessly going round a circuit not racing at all

Seems like I am down to
BMW E46 or E36 M3
BMW Z4 (The early ones look like they are made from flat pack im afraid)
Nissan 350 z (That one keeps popping up and is now at the top of my shortlist)
Civic Type R (not my favorite car I have to say)
My Aston going slow with only 450bhp but of course looking the tits

Soul Reaver said:
The only one on the list that im unsure of is my Aston. Can that run endurance standard for example or are upgrades needed? Brakes, Suspension, Wheels, Engine mods? Does it need an Ally roll cage or a steel one bolted in? Do Aston runners use Aston parts when/if they crash as of course wings etc are very expensive?
Your thoughts are appreciated
Rest assured that significant upgrades are needed in all the areas you mention.Your thoughts are appreciated

Also add in things like dry break fuel systems, lights, brake bias, engine management systems, data loggers (not necessary but useful)
Ally roll cages are not allowed I don't think &, whilst you could just bolt a steel one in, any serious racer would be looking at seam welding the whole shell & having a bespoke multi-point cage. There is a significant amount of performance to be gained from a stable platform & thats why works team spend a fortune on shell & cage design - it isn't just for safety. The man hours required for this are vast (& therefore expensive).
I understand the desire for the engineering challenge but if you want to race an Aston you'd really be better off buying something like a second hand N24 that has already been prepared for racing and racing that in the AMOC GT$/N24 series & Britcar whilst you gain experience & have a chance to look around at what others are doing to develop their cars.
Have a look at this:
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/27695/ASTON_...
Another good alternative (and one that was not on your list) would be this:
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/33158/Lotus_...
Edited by andy97 on Sunday 3rd October 10:31
Truckosaurus said:
Having seen how the little Ginetta G40 did in the 24hrs this weekend at a claimed £25 large + vat list price makes that Lotus 2-Eleven (linked in previous post) look poor value.
Lol, Nothing is as simple as it seem's in motor racing. The G40 was impressive but you should know that particular Lotus, as it happens is actually in my care (thanks for the link Andy) and at over 300bhp and lap times on the same circuit over 11 seconds a lap faster than that particular G40 they cannot be compared IMO. The 2-Eleven would be at the sharp end of the same class as the Aston Martin's, Ginetta G50's, BMW E46 M3's etc where as the G40 is at the sharp end of same class as Honda Civics and Renault Clio's with factory Ginetta drivers at the wheel!
As it happens the other car we have is a Ginetta G40 and I have to say it is a cracking car and great value..... BUT..... getting it upto the spec of the one in the Britcar you are actually looking at spending least £35K, more likely £40k (sequential gearbox, engine upgrades, bigger wheels, dry break refuelling, bigger brakes, even head lights etc etc). On top of that you need spares like wheels, so added up your probably talking around £45K to go 11 seconds a lap slower. Speed is'nt everything of course but value is relative to purpose and specification so actually our 2-Eleven GT4 represents good value as does the G40 but for different purposes ;-)
Hi Guys
I came down today. Ohhh I have the bug even more now after standing on a windy corner watching
I have scrubbed the Aston for all the reasons posted above and have shifted to GT2 or GT3 Porsche. I will keep the Aston as my road car and buy a dedicated racer as mentioned above and then do the other changes needed myself. Why does no one run a new style Nissan skyline? I would have thought that to be more than capable? Anyway Porker for me just not sure yet on the GT2 as for my first soire into motorsport outside of karting I think 600 odd Bhp maybe a bit much
So perhaps GT3 RS. Cant wait to get involved.
Best
Mark.
PS
LOVE that Lotus GT4 by the way and at only 50k a steal really.
I came down today. Ohhh I have the bug even more now after standing on a windy corner watching
I have scrubbed the Aston for all the reasons posted above and have shifted to GT2 or GT3 Porsche. I will keep the Aston as my road car and buy a dedicated racer as mentioned above and then do the other changes needed myself. Why does no one run a new style Nissan skyline? I would have thought that to be more than capable? Anyway Porker for me just not sure yet on the GT2 as for my first soire into motorsport outside of karting I think 600 odd Bhp maybe a bit much
So perhaps GT3 RS. Cant wait to get involved.Best
Mark.
PS
LOVE that Lotus GT4 by the way and at only 50k a steal really.
Edited by Soul Reaver on Sunday 3rd October 21:00
Just came 1st in class 3 and 3rd overall in the 2010 Britcar 24hr race in one exactly the same as this.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder

Racing Rod said:
Just came 1st in class 3 and 3rd overall in the 2010 Britcar 24hr race in one exactly the same as this.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder
well done Rod, top result....http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder

Racing Rod said:
Just came 1st in class 3 and 3rd overall in the 2010 Britcar 24hr race in one exactly the same as this.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder
You also need a great team behind you and I'm sure Rod would be the first to acknowledge that Neil Garner Motorsport did a fantastic job at the circuit, but also must have put a lot of time and effort in throughly preparing the car beforehand.http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder

Paul Dishman said:
Racing Rod said:
Just came 1st in class 3 and 3rd overall in the 2010 Britcar 24hr race in one exactly the same as this.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder
You also need a great team behind you and I'm sure Rod would be the first to acknowledge that Neil Garner Motorsport did a fantastic job at the circuit, but also must have put a lot of time and effort in thoroughly preparing the car beforehand.http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1758023.htm
Motorsport costs a fortune to just compete, never mind the cost of conversion and development that you eluded to, buy one of these and get straight into the action, no pissing about trying to improve it, Porsche have spent several Billion doing this for you, just race it and know that every time you intend racing , it will do what is asked so no disappointing weekends with DNF after DNF. Car ran for 24hr without so much as a judder

Now that I have managed to get a few hours of decent sleep, kinda surprised I woke up at all !!!, I have got to quite rightly add my unreserved thanks and congratulations to Neil Garner and his entire team. They worked tirelessly before and during the race and to such a high degree of professionalism that to be honest it made us drivers feel totally relaxed about all aspects of the car and the way they were running it, fantastic job boys, if I had a hat I would be taking it off to you all, bloody great job. Can I also add that our Spanish Team mates who invited us to drive with them did us proud for not only did they pay to have the car refurbished to the best possible level, they also drove like demons in what must be rightly described as the worst possible conditions that anyone could have reasonably considered as credible, coming from the sun drenched plains of Spain, they must have thought that climate change had come to Silverstone with a vengeance in the form of a 20 odd hour monsoon with mist, fog and mud spray that had to be witnessed to be believed. Thanks guys for inviting us to drive with you, it was a honour and a privilege.
I did one stint at about 02.30, it was like driving for an hour and a half in the constant spray from a 14 wheel truck, you guys will know what I am talking about if you cast your minds back to the odd occasions that whilst on a motorway you had to overtake a massive truck in lane two when held up by some nervous numpty who takes 3 mins to complete the move and all you can see is the bloody great wheel nuts of each wheel as you progress, now consider those conditions for an hour and a half and you can get a flavour of what we had to put up with. Add to this that the inside of most drivers screens were misting up so that you had little or no chance of picking up the apex points and one can understand that it was no picnic out there. So to all the drivers, the teams, the marshall's and everyone else involved including all the loyal supporters, thanks folks, you all made the weekend the great success it was, well done Britcar, another great success with 60 cars on the grid.
Try looking at the Chevron GR8. A last minute entry, and an early finish, but was flying at the start of the race. Cheap as chips to run. Cosworth ford duratec 255bhp, Hewland 5 speed sequential gearbox, weighs 680kgs.
Contact Helen at Chevron to find out more.
Good luck with the hunting!
Contact Helen at Chevron to find out more.
Good luck with the hunting!
[quote=Racing Rod]Just came 1st in class 3 and 3rd overall in the 2010 Britcar 24hr race in one exactly the same as this.
quote]
Congrats Rod, nice to see a 996 running strong at the end.
We ran the slowest car on the grid..... BMW330D, you will have passed us a good few times (the black BM with COP Security in yellow on the back)
We only stopped 8 times and finished 33rd overall........ Phew long stints.
For low cost endurance it’s got to be a diesel....... slow but gets there.
Pity they didn’t have a diesel class this year .... We would have won it.
quote]
Congrats Rod, nice to see a 996 running strong at the end.
We ran the slowest car on the grid..... BMW330D, you will have passed us a good few times (the black BM with COP Security in yellow on the back)
We only stopped 8 times and finished 33rd overall........ Phew long stints.
For low cost endurance it’s got to be a diesel....... slow but gets there.
Pity they didn’t have a diesel class this year .... We would have won it.
Edited by chrisb0 on Monday 4th October 17:19
Soul Reaver said:
Well done Rod and yes I have come to the same conclusion
You will see me next year once I have the team setup and the other bits and pieces I need to get.
Best
Mark.
Firstly,thanks Scuffers for the kind remarks, it's now going to take until next season to recover from it
You will see me next year once I have the team setup and the other bits and pieces I need to get.Best
Mark.

Mark,
Having run a team of 4 Tuscans and all that it involved I can pass on one bit of advice, well several really ,but the one I would choose is based on how you intend to do your racing. If you want your driving to improve in leaps and bounds, get someone else to run the car as it is a real nightmare trying to do both. I found that my progress as a driver was severely hampered by being team owner and principal as I spent most of my time running things and only a small amount of time learning my craft, spent several years getting to a point that would normally take a year or so and to be honest, found the whole thing more of a task then an enjoyable pastime. I made the decision to contract a preparation team, I continued to own the car/cars but from that moment onwards I felt it was the best decision I had made, the racing weekends became a pleasure and something to look forward to and I have never looked back since. I'm no spring chicken anymore, nearer the end of my racing days then the beginning, and cost wise, it really does make quite a bit of sense, own the car, but rent everything else for when you do, you get years of racing experience from a well run preparation team that would take you forever to learn yourself, and along with the right choice of car ( as covered in my original post, and it's not a plug to buy mine)you could be straight into the fun part without all the hassle
The Porsche 996 GT3 cup car cost me on average about £5000 a round to run, with two drivers that's £2500 each per race weekend, that's not bad for consistent trouble free racing that never fails to put a smile on my face.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do and if you need a chat or a mail, let me know.

I was very impressed by the Porsche performances this weekend. I was driving in the CTR developments Elise, but we are all Porsche drivers at other times. We were scuppered by slighlty unlucky events after 12 hours when the car snapped an oil belt from gravel incursion and we lost oil pressure for a time; retirment was the way forward as there was probably modest engine damage and having it let go an hour later at full chat in the wet with no visibility was both potentially life threatening and expensive. That's endurance racing...
I have a 996 GT3 Cup in the garage that I have had tidied-up early this season and not raced since. It never let me down in various club races. If anyone is interested it is loosely for sale, but I wasn't going to bother advertising until early next year. Send me a mail if it does it for you...
I have a 996 GT3 Cup in the garage that I have had tidied-up early this season and not raced since. It never let me down in various club races. If anyone is interested it is loosely for sale, but I wasn't going to bother advertising until early next year. Send me a mail if it does it for you...
Hi Mark
drop me a mail to phil@torquespeeduk.com with your contact number to discuss Britcar next year
cheers
phil
drop me a mail to phil@torquespeeduk.com with your contact number to discuss Britcar next year
cheers
phil
Soul Reaver said:
Hi Guys
I am looking at running a new team in Britcar next year and was seeking advice on suitable base cars to start out with? So here is my List...
Aston Martin Coupe 4.3 07 model (This one is mine but I am toying with turning it into a racer) What would be needed to do that?
MX5 2.0i (This one would enable me to also run in the MX5 Cup next year. I could tune it for Britcar and detune it for the Cup between rounds)
Nissan 350z
Clio 182 Cup
BMW Z3M Roadster
BMW M3E46 Coupe
So some wildly different cars there
The only one on the list that im unsure of is my Aston. Can that run endurance standard for example or are upgrades needed? Brakes, Suspension, Wheels, Engine mods? Does it need an Ally roll cage or a steel one bolted in? Do Aston runners use Aston parts when/if they crash as of course wings etc are very expensive?
Your thoughts are appreciated
I am looking at running a new team in Britcar next year and was seeking advice on suitable base cars to start out with? So here is my List...
Aston Martin Coupe 4.3 07 model (This one is mine but I am toying with turning it into a racer) What would be needed to do that?
MX5 2.0i (This one would enable me to also run in the MX5 Cup next year. I could tune it for Britcar and detune it for the Cup between rounds)
Nissan 350z
Clio 182 Cup
BMW Z3M Roadster
BMW M3E46 Coupe
So some wildly different cars there
The only one on the list that im unsure of is my Aston. Can that run endurance standard for example or are upgrades needed? Brakes, Suspension, Wheels, Engine mods? Does it need an Ally roll cage or a steel one bolted in? Do Aston runners use Aston parts when/if they crash as of course wings etc are very expensive? Your thoughts are appreciated

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