Scottish Referendum / Independence
Discussion
ViperPict said:
The current people in the SNP will not go away but the SNP as we know it will. I find it hard to believe that they will join any of the other three main parties.
So you get independence, the SNP melt away leaving a free hand for labour who decide independence isn't all it's cracked up to be and hold a referendum to apply to rejoin the union. . . . . . . .ViperPict said:
We are not a functional top predator. Far from it.
Killing the top predator will be the only capital offense.
A quick google check suggests that its currently the wildcat, sea eagle or man. if you want to reintroduce something then wolf, bear, golden eagle would be favourites. Either way given the tools at our disposal by most definition man would be the top predator.Killing the top predator will be the only capital offense.
That aside I'm not sure I fancy the sound of your plan.
Caulkhead said:
ViperPict said:
The current people in the SNP will not go away but the SNP as we know it will. I find it hard to believe that they will join any of the other three main parties.
So you get independence, the SNP melt away leaving a free hand for labour who decide independence isn't all it's cracked up to be and hold a referendum to apply to rejoin the union. . . . . . . .ViperPict said:
thinfourth2 said:
ViperPict said:
Tell you what, you and I can start the party we feel that an independent Scotland needs!
Let me control environmental policy (it'll be harsh but fair) and you can organise welfare, economics etc.
Deal?
It will need to be called The Pictish Nation tho!
Ned fired power stationLet me control environmental policy (it'll be harsh but fair) and you can organise welfare, economics etc.
Deal?
It will need to be called The Pictish Nation tho!
Low CO2 and it improves the enviroment
They won't burn as well if you strip the government sponsored fat off them
ViperPict said:
Caulkhead said:
ViperPict said:
The current people in the SNP will not go away but the SNP as we know it will. I find it hard to believe that they will join any of the other three main parties.
So you get independence, the SNP melt away leaving a free hand for labour who decide independence isn't all it's cracked up to be and hold a referendum to apply to rejoin the union. . . . . . . .Parties in Scotland
Tory = Can't vote tory as if you vote tory then maggie thatcher will get into power
SNP = Can't vote them as they will vanish
Lib Dems =
yeah rightGreens = See lib dems
Scottish socialists = Do you want to see them running scotland (don't answer that)
That leaves
Scottish labour
or the secret party
thinfourth2 said:
ViperPict said:
thinfourth2 said:
ViperPict said:
Tell you what, you and I can start the party we feel that an independent Scotland needs!
Let me control environmental policy (it'll be harsh but fair) and you can organise welfare, economics etc.
Deal?
It will need to be called The Pictish Nation tho!
Ned fired power stationLet me control environmental policy (it'll be harsh but fair) and you can organise welfare, economics etc.
Deal?
It will need to be called The Pictish Nation tho!
Low CO2 and it improves the enviroment
Presumably after we have stripped them of any quality meat on their malnourished bones...
They won't burn as well if you strip the government sponsored fat off them
Edited by ViperPict on Wednesday 25th July 15:30
For those who think that Scotland has a wonderful future as an oil producer...
"Yesterday’s Guardian article comes closer to addressing the reality of the situation, referring to jokes about the North Sea as the “Dead Sea” and the fact that “the precipitous decline in the domestic oil and gas industry… not only makes Britain more reliant on foreign imports but also reduces Treasury tax take.”
It states, “North Sea crude and gas production fell 17% in 2011, one of its biggest ever annual drops, while the number of exploration well drilled was down by half on 2010.”
DECC maintains an interesting section which allows us to examine the production record of individual fields. An examination of the once-mighty Forties, Brent, etc reveals what “terminal decline” actually looks like.
In many respects, Britain seems poised to lead the western world in grappling with peak oil. The UK oil and gas bonanza is nearing its end, and Britons must come to grips with what they once had and how rapidly it slipped away. In this respect, they provide a warning to nations such as Canada, which is about to repeat the same mistake (ie. a rapid international sell-off of its remaining oil and gas)."
"Yesterday’s Guardian article comes closer to addressing the reality of the situation, referring to jokes about the North Sea as the “Dead Sea” and the fact that “the precipitous decline in the domestic oil and gas industry… not only makes Britain more reliant on foreign imports but also reduces Treasury tax take.”
It states, “North Sea crude and gas production fell 17% in 2011, one of its biggest ever annual drops, while the number of exploration well drilled was down by half on 2010.”
DECC maintains an interesting section which allows us to examine the production record of individual fields. An examination of the once-mighty Forties, Brent, etc reveals what “terminal decline” actually looks like.
In many respects, Britain seems poised to lead the western world in grappling with peak oil. The UK oil and gas bonanza is nearing its end, and Britons must come to grips with what they once had and how rapidly it slipped away. In this respect, they provide a warning to nations such as Canada, which is about to repeat the same mistake (ie. a rapid international sell-off of its remaining oil and gas)."
WhereamI said:
For those who think that Scotland has a wonderful future as an oil producer...
"Yesterday’s Guardian article comes closer to addressing the reality of the situation, referring to jokes about the North Sea as the “Dead Sea” and the fact that “the precipitous decline in the domestic oil and gas industry… not only makes Britain more reliant on foreign imports but also reduces Treasury tax take.”
It states, “North Sea crude and gas production fell 17% in 2011, one of its biggest ever annual drops, while the number of exploration well drilled was down by half on 2010.”
DECC maintains an interesting section which allows us to examine the production record of individual fields. An examination of the once-mighty Forties, Brent, etc reveals what “terminal decline” actually looks like.
In many respects, Britain seems poised to lead the western world in grappling with peak oil. The UK oil and gas bonanza is nearing its end, and Britons must come to grips with what they once had and how rapidly it slipped away. In this respect, they provide a warning to nations such as Canada, which is about to repeat the same mistake (ie. a rapid international sell-off of its remaining oil and gas)."
Really depends who you listen to. And you're never going to quote one of the articles that proposes a healthy future, are you? You have an axe to grind now! "Yesterday’s Guardian article comes closer to addressing the reality of the situation, referring to jokes about the North Sea as the “Dead Sea” and the fact that “the precipitous decline in the domestic oil and gas industry… not only makes Britain more reliant on foreign imports but also reduces Treasury tax take.”
It states, “North Sea crude and gas production fell 17% in 2011, one of its biggest ever annual drops, while the number of exploration well drilled was down by half on 2010.”
DECC maintains an interesting section which allows us to examine the production record of individual fields. An examination of the once-mighty Forties, Brent, etc reveals what “terminal decline” actually looks like.
In many respects, Britain seems poised to lead the western world in grappling with peak oil. The UK oil and gas bonanza is nearing its end, and Britons must come to grips with what they once had and how rapidly it slipped away. In this respect, they provide a warning to nations such as Canada, which is about to repeat the same mistake (ie. a rapid international sell-off of its remaining oil and gas)."
Some (more) disingenuous b
ks from Westminster...http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
ViperPict said:
Some (more) disingenuous bks from Westminster...
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
Why? Is it not "fair" that the UK gov't - which clearly supports/favours the Union - campaigns against independence? ks from Westminster...http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
Awww, diddums!!
You'd only be worried about the UK treasury getting involved & about what they might expose if the financial case for Independence was contrived, fragile, weak & shot full of inconsistencies and generally full of s
te.....oh, hang on a minute...
Given the obvious cost of splitting the UK it also looks like a bit of sound long term financial planning/management & cost avoidance & so potentially money well spent in helping to avoid a massive & unnecesary set of costs.
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Some (more) disingenuous bks from Westminster...
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
Why? Is it not "fair" that the UK gov't - which clearly supports/favours the Union - campaigns against independence? ks from Westminster...http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
Awww, diddums!!
You'd only be worried about the UK treasury getting involved & about what they might expose if the financial case for Independence was contrived, fragile, weak & shot full of inconsistencies and generally full of s
te.....oh, hang on a minute...Given the obvious cost of splitting the UK it also looks like a bit of sound long term financial planning/management & cost avoidance & so potentially money well spent in helping to avoid a massive & unnecesary set of costs.
Wombat3 said:
ViperPict said:
Some (more) disingenuous bks from Westminster...
http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
Why? Is it not "fair" that the UK gov't - which clearly supports/favours the Union - campaigns against independence? ks from Westminster...http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/scot...
Awww, diddums!!
You'd only be worried about the UK treasury getting involved & about what they might expose if the financial case for Independence was contrived, fragile, weak & shot full of inconsistencies and generally full of s
te.....oh, hang on a minute...Given the obvious cost of splitting the UK it also looks like a bit of sound long term financial planning/management & cost avoidance & so potentially money well spent in helping to avoid a massive & unnecesary set of costs.
Bought and sold for English gold etc, etc...
"Few now know of the Williamite wars in Scotland, where William’s army was smashed at Killiecrankie, July 27, 1689 and elsewhere by the Scottish Jacobites. It was William who was responsible for the Darien Disaster in 1695-98, by forbidding the English colonies to supply the Scots with fresh water and provisions and encouraging the Spaniards to attack them. The whole of Scotland – and Glasgow in particular – invested heavily in this venture. The result was ruination, coupled with the famine years after the Williamite wars in Scotland: all designed to soften Scotland up for the coming "Union" of 1707. Queen Ann described the so called "Union" as her "Design Against Scotland", which was achieved by bribery, threats and coercion, William had an army on the Border and a fleet offshore, ready to invade before his death in 1702. He also sent a fleet from Belfast to murder the Clanranald MacDonalds at Moidart."
There is great historical reason why the Union should end, in parallel any contemporary arguments of economics etc. Discuss...
ViperPict said:
Bought and sold for English gold etc, etc...
"Few now know of the Williamite wars in Scotland, where William’s army was smashed at Killiecrankie, July 27, 1689 and elsewhere by the Scottish Jacobites. It was William who was responsible for the Darien Disaster in 1695-98, by forbidding the English colonies to supply the Scots with fresh water and provisions and encouraging the Spaniards to attack them. The whole of Scotland – and Glasgow in particular – invested heavily in this venture. The result was ruination, coupled with the famine years after the Williamite wars in Scotland: all designed to soften Scotland up for the coming "Union" of 1707. Queen Ann described the so called "Union" as her "Design Against Scotland", which was achieved by bribery, threats and coercion, William had an army on the Border and a fleet offshore, ready to invade before his death in 1702. He also sent a fleet from Belfast to murder the Clanranald MacDonalds at Moidart."
There is great historical reason why the Union should end, in parallel any contemporary arguments of economics etc. Discuss...
Good to see you dealing with current issues"Few now know of the Williamite wars in Scotland, where William’s army was smashed at Killiecrankie, July 27, 1689 and elsewhere by the Scottish Jacobites. It was William who was responsible for the Darien Disaster in 1695-98, by forbidding the English colonies to supply the Scots with fresh water and provisions and encouraging the Spaniards to attack them. The whole of Scotland – and Glasgow in particular – invested heavily in this venture. The result was ruination, coupled with the famine years after the Williamite wars in Scotland: all designed to soften Scotland up for the coming "Union" of 1707. Queen Ann described the so called "Union" as her "Design Against Scotland", which was achieved by bribery, threats and coercion, William had an army on the Border and a fleet offshore, ready to invade before his death in 1702. He also sent a fleet from Belfast to murder the Clanranald MacDonalds at Moidart."
There is great historical reason why the Union should end, in parallel any contemporary arguments of economics etc. Discuss...
However your normal response to the fact that the last 50 years of scottish politics is labour labour or labour is to squeal that things are changing
So to sum up
events in the past 50 years irrelevant
events over 300 years ago pressing issues we must deal with
ViperPict said:
Really depends who you listen to. And you're never going to quote one of the articles that proposes a healthy future, are you? You have an axe to grind now!
I listen the the facts - meet the UK oil production figures since the peak year, which was 1999:1999 137,099
2000 126,245
2001 116,678
2002 115,944
2003 106,073
2004 95,374
2005 84,721
2006 76,578
2007 76,575
2008 71,665
2009 68,199
2010 62,962
2011 51,972
The article I posted was commenting on the fact that the decline from 2010 to 2011 was bigger than in previous years, but it's been declining for a long time. Of course this is partly why new measures were put in place in the last budget to allow oil companies to offset more decommissioning costs against tax, to encourage them to continue to invest in the North Sea, but an outcome of that will be lower public income from oil taxation in the future. That is something the UK can afford given the fact that oil represents less than 2% of income but Scotland may struggle with given that oil is somewhere closer to 16%.
I have no axe to grind other than not wanting to see Scotland do something really stupid. It makes little difference to me, in fact an independent Scotland is on balance probably more in my interests than against them, but from an economic perspective it's a really dumb thing to do.
WhereamI said:
I have no axe to grind other than not wanting to see Scotland do something really stupid. It makes little difference to me,in fact an independent Scotland is on balance probably more in my interests than against them,but from an economic perspective it's a really dumb thing to do.
But it will be an 'adventure' and that outweighs all the negatives.
rich1231 said:
Nice to see some chippy Scots taking part in the Olympics and not singing the NA. Participate under a British flag and take British Olympic Funding then they should show a little more respect.
To whom and what are you referring to?Your post is tainted with English arrogance btw.
TheHeretic said:
ViperPict said:
Of course you do know how this is relevant to Scottish independence. The get out option from the Tories badly planned and implemented austerity economics...
You are doing it again. How are they badly planned. And badly implemented? What are the alternatives, and what do YOU think should happen? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff