Listening in on Air Traffic. Flightradar24.
Listening in on Air Traffic. Flightradar24.
Author
Discussion

Karl911

Original Poster:

205 posts

178 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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I recently downloaded the Flightradar24 App for my phone and seem to have become hooked on seeing what aircraft is about to fly over and where it's come from and where it's going.
Living in Twickenham with Heathrow traffic constantly above me it has become an addiction much to the girlfriends dismay.
The App allows emergency Squawk flights to be highlighted so earlier I watched an Easy Jet flight switch to an emergency channel as it did a U-turn over Barnstable, and make an emergency landing at Bristol Airport.

So is there a way that I could have listened in on the Pilot to Ground crew conversation?.


TheEnd

15,370 posts

214 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Yep, but you'd need a scanner and details of the frequency that the control tower would be using.
Each airport will have a bunch of different frequencies, a dedicated weather channel, an approach channel, ground control like shunting the aircraft around, and lots of other airline specific channels where Thompson orders new napkins etc.

You can sometimes find some internet sites that relay the channels too.

essayer

10,382 posts

220 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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In the UK, it's not legal to listen in to the broadcasts, so for that reason you are unlikely to find a website that publishes the feeds for free listening online.

You could buy your own scanner, and there may be some 'underground' sites that do rebroadcast stuff from a scanner in the UK..

http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html
has lots from the US and Europe

s p a c e m a n

11,809 posts

174 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Why didnt it just turn left? Was the pilot like my nan used to be about crossing oncoming traffic, she would never turn right unless it was at a set og lights.

Benbay001

5,865 posts

183 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Looks like i know what i will be doing for the rest of the afternoon..

Jim Campbell

445 posts

248 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Altitude in metres! what are you a communist? Put it in proper units immediately biggrin

Ta

knight

5,235 posts

305 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Karl911 said:


There are two ex bmi aircraft in that screen shot! And being ex bmi I'll always recognise them frown

Karl911

Original Poster:

205 posts

178 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
Thanks guys I had a feeling the air traffic was restricted over the UK. Would just have been interesting to see what the emergency was and how Bristol controlled it's own traffic to presumably allow him to land straight away.

Jim Campbell said:
Altitude in metres! what are you a communist? Put it in proper units immediately biggrin
I had a feeling that may get picked up, I only changed it the other day as I never could grasp the Knots system. When I use to jump out of Hercs the load master would give wind speed in Knots and I never knew if I was jumping into a hurricane or a clear night. I've changed it back and will learn it.

I'll do a proper search and see what I can come up with as far as troll sites with possible UK scanner frequency's.

A lex said:
Hi,

Im an ATCO working at an en-route centre, so if you have any specific Qs, feel free to fire away! smile

Its not legal to listen to ATC channels in the UK (as mentioned), but any scanner that is 8.33khz equipped will allow you to eavesrop on whats going on.

Frequencies are often 'band-boxed' (grouped together), so the live recording feeds that you often get on websites isnt really giving the full picture as to what is going on, and its also why you will very often get 'one sided' conversations...

With regard to the emergency aircraft turning one way and not the other, it can be a whole host of reasons
-Wind
-Height
-Runway in use
-Active military areas
-Other traffic!
-Controller preference even smile

The websites/apps like flightradar24 etc are really quite good. We once logged in on a nightshift and compared the picture on the iPhone app, to the radar screen infront of us.... the iPhone was about 20s behind reality. Its also important to realise that although it shows most of the aircraft in the sky, it doesnt show all of them.
I'll take you up on that offer at some stage, I even found myself looking at the requirements to become an ATCO, it does interest me a lot.
Also been thinking about doing a real flight simulator, and seeing if I like it.
http://www.virtualaviation.co.uk/pages/flight-simu...

It's weird that you say there is a slight delay as the traffic over the girlfriends place is real time, very accurate to even coincide with crossing land marks at exactly the right time. Maybe down to altitude and proximity to a ground beacon.

I initially got the App to try and find out what a certain small propped aircraft was that would do very high altitude circles over NW London but it didn't show up. So like you say not all craft are visible.
Thanks for your help on this.

anonymous-user

80 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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A lex said:
Karl911 said:
It's weird that you say there is a slight delay as the traffic over the girlfriends place is real time, very accurate to even coincide with crossing land marks at exactly the right time. Maybe down to altitude and proximity to a ground beacon.

I initially got the App to try and find out what a certain small propped aircraft was that would do very high altitude circles over NW London but it didn't show up. So like you say not all craft are visible.
Thanks for your help on this.
The iPhone apps and websites will always be about 20s behind reality (even if it looks like something different on the screen - 20s or so seems to be the average, and that really is very very good, when you consider how much info has to be processed, how many servers it has to travel through etc.

We were comparing the indicated mode-S flight levels on the app to the realtime mode-C altitude on the radar screens, and like I say - 20s ish was the lag.

These apps rely on info received via ADS-B receivers, with info from mode-S transponders on the aircraft..... not every plane is equipped with mode-S yet (although its a very high percentage) - in the near future it will be mandatory for all aircraft (save a few government flights) to carry a mode-S transponder in the upper airways.
There's certainly no lag on flight radar at the airport I live near. They cross my house at exactly the same time as they do on the APP. It's the same with the ground movements, turning on the taxiways when they do on the app. Perhaps it depends on the receiver for where you are and the speed of that feeders internet etc.

Karl911

Original Poster:

205 posts

178 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
el stovey said:
A lex said:
Karl911 said:
It's weird that you say there is a slight delay as the traffic over the girlfriends place is real time, very accurate to even coincide with crossing land marks at exactly the right time. Maybe down to altitude and proximity to a ground beacon.

I initially got the App to try and find out what a certain small propped aircraft was that would do very high altitude circles over NW London but it didn't show up. So like you say not all craft are visible.
Thanks for your help on this.
The iPhone apps and websites will always be about 20s behind reality (even if it looks like something different on the screen - 20s or so seems to be the average, and that really is very very good, when you consider how much info has to be processed, how many servers it has to travel through etc.

We were comparing the indicated mode-S flight levels on the app to the realtime mode-C altitude on the radar screens, and like I say - 20s ish was the lag.

These apps rely on info received via ADS-B receivers, with info from mode-S transponders on the aircraft..... not every plane is equipped with mode-S yet (although its a very high percentage) - in the near future it will be mandatory for all aircraft (save a few government flights) to carry a mode-S transponder in the upper airways.
There's certainly no lag on flight radar at the airport I live near. They cross my house at exactly the same time as they do on the APP. It's the same with the ground movements, turning on the taxiways when they do on the app. Perhaps it depends on the receiver for where you are and the speed of that feeders internet etc.
I'm afraid I agree. I just took the dogs out and stood directly under the air traffic, I zoomed in to the street I was on and the aircraft showed up exactly in real time. There was recently a software update so not sure if this has anything to do with it.
It may vary depending on the receivers and a whole host of other variables.

I now find myself listening to the JFK control tower and watching the flight data. My misses hates me.

MarkK

667 posts

305 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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To the OP, might be worth looking up VATSIM if this kind of thing interests you. Used to fly online quite a bit and it always struck me as pretty realistic from both a pilot and an air traffic controller's perspective.

anonymous-user

80 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Alex maybe you're also getting the flight radar info on a slow connection?

Karl911

Original Poster:

205 posts

178 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
A lex said:
el stovey said:
Alex maybe you're also getting the flight radar info on a slow connection?
Its the works WiFi - probably not setting the world on fire speed wise!

The radar picture we use to control the bloody things is about 3s behind 'reality' for gawds sakes hehe
Ha ha, Alex give me a shout if you loose an aircraft and I might be able to help!. In all honesty though thanks for your advise.

MarkK said:
To the OP, might be worth looking up VATSIM if this kind of thing interests you. Used to fly online quite a bit and it always struck me as pretty realistic from both a pilot and an air traffic controller's perspective.
I'll check it out, thanks.

anonymous-user

80 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
A lex said:
Its the works WiFi - probably not setting the world on fire speed wise!

The radar picture we use to control the bloody things is about 3s behind 'reality' for gawds sakes hehe
Presumably that's because your picture is based on actual positions of the aircraft without predicting positions in between? flight radar projects their position based on the last speed. (Depending on options selected) Often on approach where the speed is decelerating, the aircraft move backwards slightly when an update at a slower speed appears after the projected position based on the previous higher speed.

David87

6,993 posts

238 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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I have a scanner. I've had it for years, but with the advent of these air traffic apps, it really is quite good (if not particularly legal) to listen in and watch them in near real-time on-screen. thumbup

mikef

6,158 posts

277 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
A lex said:
Hi,

Im an ATCO working at an en-route centre, so if you have any specific Qs, feel free to fire away! smile

Its not legal to listen to ATC channels in the UK
So it would seem: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publicat...

But as a holder of a CAA RT licence, am I allowed to listen on my iCom to ATC while driving to the airfield to get runway in use, QFE/QNH, figure out how busy the circuit is, etc?

anonymous-user

80 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
In the UK, I think its OK to listen to broadcasts just not to transmit them. It seems a strange law when most other countries are happy to let people do it. I suppose there isn't really any massive public pressure to overturn it. hehe

LukeBird

17,170 posts

235 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
el stovey said:
Presumably that's because your picture is based on actual positions of the aircraft without predicting positions in between? flight radar projects their position based on the last speed. (Depending on options selected) Often on approach where the speed is decelerating, the aircraft move backwards slightly when an update at a slower speed appears after the projected position based on the previous higher speed.
In fact, given multi-tracking radar data and data correlation with an Airspace Computer (I know what ours is called, not the Eurocontrol system though), radar update is every 6 seconds, so it's always behind 'reality' (as Alex alluded to earlier on).
I've noticed it's slower compared to radar as well; the prediction tools that Flightradar uses are obviously only so good.
I find it fascinating however.

anonymous-user

80 months

Monday 20th May 2013
quotequote all
Alex, are you FANS equipped in eurocontrol? Can you issue CPDLC clearances or receive messages? I know it's mainly used in oceanic airspace but just wondered if you use It at all?

eharding

14,648 posts

310 months

Monday 20th May 2013
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Some interesting development underway using generic USB DTV tuners (a tenner on eBay) and Software Defined Radio to decode ADBS/Mode-S traffic (a lot cheaper than the mainstream decoders...)

http://www.hamradioscience.com/rtl1090-ads-b-decod...

https://www.cgran.org/wiki/gr-air-modes