Discussion
Leon R said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:No they sometimes show you their Police ID before abducting and killing you in an outskirt of London.
See this is exactly what happens when you do what I said earlier and model the behavior of others on the worst examples.If you're in immediate danger a Policeman is highly likely to help you. A bear, less so.
The same goes for an average person. I've had random strangers help me in all kinds of situations and I've helped others in all kinds of situations. (Not enough, but I'm working on it.) People are overwhelmingly good IME.
Yes you might break your leg and Rose West is first on the scene but it's not a likely scenario.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Leon R said:
See this is exactly what happens when you do what I said earlier and model the behavior of others on the worst examples.
As soon as people are asked the question they don't picture a bear and a man, they picture a bear and Wayne Couzens.
Yeah fair point that I've used the worst case scenario.As soon as people are asked the question they don't picture a bear and a man, they picture a bear and Wayne Couzens.
But stop and think about the daily drip drip drip of behaviours some of which have been mentioned on this thread and many of which there have been countless reports and other threads on.
Obviously the really extreme scenarios like Couzens figure somewhere in there but if you're looking for the reasons so many women have such s
tty opinion of men I think you have to step back and look at the complete picture around behaviours.There's an article somewhere called something like what would women do in a world without men and there's stuff on there you'd never even expect to hear like "wear what I want".
Some of them range from odd to creepy to totally f
king disturbing to dangerous to deadly.And no #notallmen or whatever someone will come back with.
Just approach it with an open mind which a lot of men don't do as this thread demonstrates
Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
It's a much more likely scenario for someone to try and take advantage of a woman in distress than a man though.
That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Also again, this bear thing is a joke deliberately designed to annoy a certain type of man. So, if you're annoyed and pointing out the logical flaws you win I guess
That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Also again, this bear thing is a joke deliberately designed to annoy a certain type of man. So, if you're annoyed and pointing out the logical flaws you win I guess
Leon R said:
But again you are not looking at a complete picture of behaviors with an open mind because that isn't what is available to you. You are looking at specific examples and they are all negative because that is what gets clicks and shares.
Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
A positive interaction or a normal one?Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
Generally you don't read about normal interactions between anyone because generally speaking it isn't news and I wouldn't say that's a man/woman specific thing.
Turn it on its head.
Think how many times you read some utterly f
ked up thing in the news about something a man has done to a woman.Now think how many times you read the same sort of thing either in terms of quantity or the range and depths of depravity on display where it's something a woman has done to a man.
That might start to explain the way some women see things.
2xChevrons said:
Nice post - rounded, thoughtful, empathetic. Recognises the very real issues that are particular to men in the modern age without just blaming them on feminism, and recognises that the solution is for men to encourage and help each other to change to adapt rather than just raging and wishing to turn back the clock.
Not sure that is the case and attributing this to all men seems very problematic.A small minority of men will commit serious criminal acts and an even smaller minority of women. As part of that men have more propensity for violent crime but it still remains a small minority.
The fact that both sexes should justifiably be wary of this minority does not make all men responsible for the actions of this criminal minority. From a practical perspective what can be done is to improve security and to punish criminals once caught. Aside from that we have no more control over those criminals than women do.
JerseyRoyal said:
It's a much more likely scenario for someone to try and take advantage of a woman in distress than a man though.
That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Which all falls long way short of deciding not to phone your breakdown company when you break down and instead releasing a bear from a trailer.That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Most AA employees aren't Fred West and most bears are more likely to eat your face than fix your car.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Leon R said:
But again you are not looking at a complete picture of behaviors with an open mind because that isn't what is available to you. You are looking at specific examples and they are all negative because that is what gets clicks and shares.
Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
A positive interaction or a normal one?Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
Generally you don't read about normal interactions between anyone because generally speaking it isn't news and I wouldn't say that's a man/woman specific thing.
Turn it on its head.
Think how many times you read some utterly f
ked up thing in the news about something a man has done to a woman.Now think how many times you read the same sort of thing either in terms of quantity or the range and depths of depravity on display where it's something a woman has done to a man.
That might start to explain the way some women see things.
It's a complex psychological thing. It's going to be based on perception, we all base things on perception as that is how we interpret the world. There will be lived experience, trauma, hearsay, a news feed ploughing fear, genetic hard wiring all at play amongst probably other things. I would expect most folks have zero idea of the brutality possible from a bear, its just so distant a thing it doesn't carry a lot of weight.
There was a mumsnet link mentioned but scanning the pages I didn't see it can someone re post it please?
BikeBikeBIke said:
JerseyRoyal said:
It's a much more likely scenario for someone to try and take advantage of a woman in distress than a man though.
That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Which all falls long way short of deciding not to phone your breakdown company when you break down and instead releasing a bear from a trailer.That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Most AA employees aren't Fred West and most bears are more likely to eat your face than fix your car.
You don't know which ones are Fred West until they murder you, which is why women are cautious.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Leon R said:
But again you are not looking at a complete picture of behaviors with an open mind because that isn't what is available to you. You are looking at specific examples and they are all negative because that is what gets clicks and shares.
Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
A positive interaction or a normal one?Ask yourself when the last time you read about a positive interaction between a man and a woman was.
Generally you don't read about normal interactions between anyone because generally speaking it isn't news and I wouldn't say that's a man/woman specific thing.
Turn it on its head.
Think how many times you read some utterly f
ked up thing in the news about something a man has done to a woman.Now think how many times you read the same sort of thing either in terms of quantity or the range and depths of depravity on display where it's something a woman has done to a man.
That might start to explain the way some women see things.
Leon R said:
I never said I don't understand why things are seen the way they are, I actually said the reason I think things are seen in that way and then you confirmed it with your post.
Yup. Kindness and helpfulness to others are so overwhelmingly common they don't even make the news, so some people start to think everyone is Fred West.Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Friday 10th May 15:57
Pointing out why it's probably not a good assessment of risk isn't really the point. Questioning why so many women are so afraid of men that they would apparently rather take their chances with something objectively riskier is the point. Maybe that's because so many men really are so awful and most women have experience of that, maybe it's because of the way that we report and talk about assaults on women, maybe it's both.
JerseyRoyal said:
It's a much more likely scenario for someone to try and take advantage of a woman in distress than a man though.
That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Also again, this bear thing is a joke deliberately designed to annoy a certain type of man. So, if you're annoyed and pointing out the logical flaws you win I guess
theres a counter argument to that that woman get away with stuff as well. plenty of times in retail against scallys who are stealing ive been threatened and the female manager with me proper has a go at the scally and they "wont hit a woman" but the moment I or a male does we are fair game.That's what seems to be tripping some up. It's easy for us to say it's no big deal and women are being silly when we're unlikely to get felt up by someone offering help, almost every woman has had at least one bad experience with a man. That colours their opinion.
Also again, this bear thing is a joke deliberately designed to annoy a certain type of man. So, if you're annoyed and pointing out the logical flaws you win I guess
There is a race to the bottom as to who in society can claim the prize of being the most victim of circumstances.
The notion women are living in a constant state of fear in every living moment doesn't tally with the hundreds of women I’ve known.
Try being an indian / ethnic for a while when on a night out in most cities, then you’ll know what feeling threatened is…anyway hopefully that gives me 1st prize i the “I’ve got it worse than you” contest?
The notion women are living in a constant state of fear in every living moment doesn't tally with the hundreds of women I’ve known.
Try being an indian / ethnic for a while when on a night out in most cities, then you’ll know what feeling threatened is…anyway hopefully that gives me 1st prize i the “I’ve got it worse than you” contest?
A f*cking ridiculous question, answered overwhelmingly dishonestly. In an actual, real life ‘man or bear’ scenario (happens often…) nobody is choosing a bloody bear FFS.
For context, I have a ten year old daughter and I’d much rather she grew up suitably streetwise but without the current trendy hysterical fear that all men are nasty rapey sorts. That isn’t the road to a well functioning society. A healthy realisation that bad people will always exist, but that the overwhelming majority of people are fine, will serve her far better. As well as, hopefully, enough common sense to appreciate that bears are inherently more dangerous than humans
For context, I have a ten year old daughter and I’d much rather she grew up suitably streetwise but without the current trendy hysterical fear that all men are nasty rapey sorts. That isn’t the road to a well functioning society. A healthy realisation that bad people will always exist, but that the overwhelming majority of people are fine, will serve her far better. As well as, hopefully, enough common sense to appreciate that bears are inherently more dangerous than humans
Edited by Southerner on Friday 10th May 23:55
The Rotrex Kid said:
Isn’t that what I said? Chances are that a bear (take into account that the type, size, aggression etc are not specified, in the same way that the man’s intentions aren’t described) will undoubtedly kill you if you can’t outrun it, but that’s not the point.
It’s the fact that most women (not men, the answers will be very different for men) would prefer to take the chances of just being mauled to death over the chances of what a random man could do to them.
If you can’t understand that then I assume you don’t have a wife/daughter or have ever been in contact with anyone who has been through the psychological torment of being raped.
A bear isn’t going to rape you, or possibly then go on to torture you whilst taking pleasure from that before maybe finally killing you, there’s a chance that the random man in the woods might want to do that and with that slight chance, women would rather risk getting dismembered by a bear, I completely understand why.
It's 04:24 so I'm not waking my wife or daughter up to check, but I really hope they're not so bloody stupid!It’s the fact that most women (not men, the answers will be very different for men) would prefer to take the chances of just being mauled to death over the chances of what a random man could do to them.
If you can’t understand that then I assume you don’t have a wife/daughter or have ever been in contact with anyone who has been through the psychological torment of being raped.
A bear isn’t going to rape you, or possibly then go on to torture you whilst taking pleasure from that before maybe finally killing you, there’s a chance that the random man in the woods might want to do that and with that slight chance, women would rather risk getting dismembered by a bear, I completely understand why.
Firstly because I would hope they've got enough of a grasp of basic statistics to realise that if a woman actually did come face to face with a wild bear in the woods, it's somewhere North of 1,000 times more likely to kill them than a man.
Secondly because I'm sure they're both also aware of the fact that if they ever were to be raped, assaulted or killed, it's also massively more likely to be by a man they already know than it is by a stranger.
What's the betting we see an uptick in "woman killed by bear" stories in future years after they went to stroke the bloody things because a stupid, divisive, s
t-stirring Internet meme told them it was safer than that bloke sat opposite them on the bus?Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff