Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
Pica-Pica said:
DodgyGeezer said:
bigothunter said:
Lower speed limits are popular with the electorate, many of whom don't even drive. Why would a blanket 20mph limit lose votes?
if you don't drive you shouldn't have any input into 20/30/40 etc speed zones Highways are open to pedestrians, cyclists and horse as of (ancient) right. Motorised vehicles are only licensed to used them.
A 20 mph limit can tell Google "hey, this really isn't faster". It also would make those roads more pleasant for residents, if obeyed. As it is, they rarely are, which then leads to more substantial measures like modal filtering.
Don't forget that a lot of rat runs end in junctions on main roads that aren't designed for high volumes of traffic. This can actually make traffic worse on the main roads, and pose a safety issue.
To make speed limits work for traffic control they'd have to be obeyed, and also maintain some 30+ mph main roads.
Wills2 said:
If it's like the England 20 zones, if they enforce the limit then everyone will lose their licence within weeks.
They won't enforce it much. The trouble is, as they very well know... there will be so many church-mounted-ringing-device-ends clogging up the roads doing 15 to 19 mph that even if you overtake one there will be another a few yards further up. i.e. it'll be self-policing by way of (barely) mobile roadblock. I drive from time to time in the S Wales valleys and I often find myself thinking that the locals appear to drive rather slowly - not so much around town, but on a few stretches of urban national speed limit on the way out etc it's very noticable. Very rare that the convoy of dawdlers manages to get much above 40. Is this a hangover from the days of having that buffoon of a Chief Constable who was obsessed with speeding many moons ago?
Kawasicki said:
In the end of the day we are lucky to live in a democracy. Don’t like the direction you’re on, vote in someone with radically opposite goals.
I'm afraid the electoral system in Wales (and Scotland) is geared such that a regime change is nearly (as close as makes no difference) mathematically impossible. Labour has always been in power in Wales and the SNP has nearly always been in power in Scotland. The SNP have power simply because Labour died in Scotland, the SNP are a nationalist equivalent of Labour. ingenieur said:
Kawasicki said:
In the end of the day we are lucky to live in a democracy. Don’t like the direction you’re on, vote in someone with radically opposite goals.
I'm afraid the electoral system in Wales (and Scotland) is geared such that a regime change is nearly (as close as makes no difference) mathematically impossible. Labour has always been in power in Wales and the SNP has nearly always been in power in Scotland. The SNP have power simply because Labour died in Scotland, the SNP are a nationalist equivalent of Labour. Southerner said:
I drive from time to time in the S Wales valleys and I often find myself thinking that the locals appear to drive rather slowly - not so much around town, but on a few stretches of urban national speed limit on the way out etc it's very noticable. Very rare that the convoy of dawdlers manages to get much above 40. Is this a hangover from the days of having that buffoon of a Chief Constable who was obsessed with speeding many moons ago?
No. Sheep.Southerner said:
I drive from time to time in the S Wales valleys and I often find myself thinking that the locals appear to drive rather slowly - not so much around town, but on a few stretches of urban national speed limit on the way out etc it's very noticable. Very rare that the convoy of dawdlers manages to get much above 40. Is this a hangover from the days of having that buffoon of a Chief Constable who was obsessed with speeding many moons ago?
You're thinking of Richard Brumstrom, ex CC of NORTH wales police......so No!!CoolHands said:
scorcher said:
Got to ride my motorbike in first gear in 20 mph limits as it judders and splutters in 2 nd as its not much over tickover. Can’t see that’s an improvement for noise or emissions.
It’s not. But actual rationale is not part of the equation. ingenieur said:
Kawasicki said:
In the end of the day we are lucky to live in a democracy. Don’t like the direction you’re on, vote in someone with radically opposite goals.
I'm afraid the electoral system in Wales (and Scotland) is geared such that a regime change is nearly (as close as makes no difference) mathematically impossible. Labour has always been in power in Wales and the SNP has nearly always been in power in Scotland. The SNP have power simply because Labour died in Scotland, the SNP are a nationalist equivalent of Labour.That has a familiar ring.
bazza white said:
20 and 50mph limits. Wales really is anti motorist, I'm not sure it is a popular vote winner.
Wales doesn't have any congestion charge zones, doesn't have Clean Air Zones, and at Hafodrynys hill they demolished 23 homes because of addressing vehicle pollution.They have refused the MR Newport bypass and put a temporary hold on any further road building, but there's also been decades of investment in Valleys road infrastructure (and ongoing at the A470).
So on balance I don't think Wales is any worse than the rest of the UK.
Usually 1 or more of the following to justify lowering limits:
Pollution
Global warming
Safety
If safety in a 30 limit reducing to 20 usually for pedestrian safety. As very few pedestrians are hit by cars in places other than the road & cars rarely drive on pavements it would seem that pedestrians are putting themselves in harms way. It seems that pedestrian behavior is the problem.
Perhaps money could be spent educating pedestrians how to cross roads safely? I have seen that some French villages & small towns often have many zebra crossings & street furniture to prevent crossing the road elsewhere.
Pollution
Global warming
Safety
If safety in a 30 limit reducing to 20 usually for pedestrian safety. As very few pedestrians are hit by cars in places other than the road & cars rarely drive on pavements it would seem that pedestrians are putting themselves in harms way. It seems that pedestrian behavior is the problem.
Perhaps money could be spent educating pedestrians how to cross roads safely? I have seen that some French villages & small towns often have many zebra crossings & street furniture to prevent crossing the road elsewhere.
Xenobian said:
bigothunter said:
Lower speed limits are popular with the electorate, many of whom don't even drive. Blanket 20mph limit is a vote winner.
Where do they get these voters from? 
Xenobian said:
bigothunter said:
Lower speed limits are popular with the electorate, many of whom don't even drive. Blanket 20mph limit is a vote winner.
Where do they get these voters from? Car haters or those with huge reservations are in the majority. Doubt whether many of the 9 million in London and other big cities actually like cars. Then we have greenies, eco-warriors, disinterested millennials, safety zealots, most women, woke generation, indoctrinated young adults, non-drivers et al. Not to mention Brake supporters.
I've raised concern on classic car forums about creeping speed limits, ISA and other draconian measures. Other 'enthusiasts' vehemently disagreed with statements like: "That will stop those flash b
ds in their BMWs speeding in the outside lane". I was almost a lone voice.Surveys are always open to corruption. But even the RAC has found support for more speed restrictions. Issues like speed cameras, 60mph motorway limit (50mph in the rain), ISA and 20mph urban limits typically get 70 to 75% approval.
Motorists and especially enthusiasts are not popular. Blanket 20mph limit is a vote winner.
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