Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Discussion
“ Category C1
You can drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500kg MAM (with a trailer up to 750kg).
Category C1E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg.
The combined MAM of both cannot exceed 12,000kg.”
As the pickup is not over 3500 then this wouldn’t apply? Assuming you just used a normal trailer not 5th wheel so the weight wasn’t carried then?
Or are the rules if you drive an american pickup it is registered as a truck with lower speed limits and the strict mot?
You can drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500kg MAM (with a trailer up to 750kg).
Category C1E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg.
The combined MAM of both cannot exceed 12,000kg.”
As the pickup is not over 3500 then this wouldn’t apply? Assuming you just used a normal trailer not 5th wheel so the weight wasn’t carried then?
Or are the rules if you drive an american pickup it is registered as a truck with lower speed limits and the strict mot?
HustleRussell said:
C1+E unless that monstrous trailer happens to have a MAM of 750kg or less...
Speed limits where national speed limits apply are 10mph lower when towing any kind of trailer.
I realise that but being a pickup you could use it as a daily vehicle without the trailer and still be speed limited?Speed limits where national speed limits apply are 10mph lower when towing any kind of trailer.
Take one 3.5 ton pickup including payload, attach one 10ton trailer via regular ball hitch.
If you have a b+e from pre 2013 you are good to go as it states any maximum weight if the vehicle is rated for it. Anyone passing after then has no method to tow the same load with any licence as the pickup isn’t a c1/c class vehicle?
R0G said:
Slow said:
If you have a b+e from pre 2013 you are good to go as it states any maximum weight if the vehicle is rated for it. Anyone passing after then has no method to tow the same load with any licence as the pickup isn’t a c1/c class vehicle?
C1 covers B so not a problem"Category C1
You can drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500kg MAM (with a trailer up to 750kg).
Category C1E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg."
Slow said:
Help please as I’m confused as there appears to be a dead zone in the licence types within the U.K for heavy trailers.
Looking up just a 2010 f350 it states 15000 lb towing capacity and 5730 lb payload.
If you were to use a gooseneck trailer it would combine these as some of the weight is carried by the truck. This combines to a 9.7 ton capacity for towing. The pickup weighs 3ton roughly.
Where do our rules stand on this?
From the Dvla website it says this - I passed in 2015.
“The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:
before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer
on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500k”
Category c and c1 are both for a vehicle over 3.5 tons which the pickup wouldn’t be. So what licence do you have to get to tow over 3.5 but on a sub 3.5 ton vehicle?
From what I can see they have made a class of trailer unable to be used by some people with no method to ever unlock it?
Things like this but could realistically have a 9.7 ton version. Even this one doesn’t make sense as 3.5 would be behind it and no U.K. sold pickup has a payload capacity of the remaining 1.8 ton.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112774053226
The important bit of information you are missing is that it's the GVW of the towing vehicle, which is around 4600kg depending on the spec of the F350, that determines the category of licence required. Also if you do have the C1E entitlement through grandfather rights, you are restricted to 8250kg GTW, not 12000kg.Looking up just a 2010 f350 it states 15000 lb towing capacity and 5730 lb payload.
If you were to use a gooseneck trailer it would combine these as some of the weight is carried by the truck. This combines to a 9.7 ton capacity for towing. The pickup weighs 3ton roughly.
Where do our rules stand on this?
From the Dvla website it says this - I passed in 2015.
“The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:
before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer
on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500k”
Category c and c1 are both for a vehicle over 3.5 tons which the pickup wouldn’t be. So what licence do you have to get to tow over 3.5 but on a sub 3.5 ton vehicle?
From what I can see they have made a class of trailer unable to be used by some people with no method to ever unlock it?
Things like this but could realistically have a 9.7 ton version. Even this one doesn’t make sense as 3.5 would be behind it and no U.K. sold pickup has a payload capacity of the remaining 1.8 ton.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112774053226
Is there anything on the used market that can tow a caravan with a mtplm of 1412kg but keep under the 3500kg total? Ideally it would be nice for it to be a ford too.
I co-own an Elddis xplore 544 (1350kg) that I tow with a Nissan x trail that is currently under the 3500kg limit but the caravan is being swapped for an elddis avante 550 (1412kg). The x trail is going too so I’m losing my tow car and I don’t think my wife’s mk2 focus estate will be a suitable machine.
Worst case I’m going to have to do my test and possibly a few lessons.
I co-own an Elddis xplore 544 (1350kg) that I tow with a Nissan x trail that is currently under the 3500kg limit but the caravan is being swapped for an elddis avante 550 (1412kg). The x trail is going too so I’m losing my tow car and I don’t think my wife’s mk2 focus estate will be a suitable machine.
Worst case I’m going to have to do my test and possibly a few lessons.
Gtom said:
Is there anything on the used market that can tow a caravan with a mtplm of 1412kg but keep under the 3500kg total? Ideally it would be nice for it to be a ford too.
I co-own an Elddis xplore 544 (1350kg) that I tow with a Nissan x trail that is currently under the 3500kg limit but the caravan is being swapped for an elddis avante 550 (1412kg). The x trail is going too so I’m losing my tow car and I don’t think my wife’s mk2 focus estate will be a suitable machine.
Worst case I’m going to have to do my test and possibly a few lessons.
Skoda Octavia is one of manyI co-own an Elddis xplore 544 (1350kg) that I tow with a Nissan x trail that is currently under the 3500kg limit but the caravan is being swapped for an elddis avante 550 (1412kg). The x trail is going too so I’m losing my tow car and I don’t think my wife’s mk2 focus estate will be a suitable machine.
Worst case I’m going to have to do my test and possibly a few lessons.
Me again....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Ford-F350/25474060...
2.8 ton weight according to google which I would say ok thats just a B class as its basically same weight as my Range Rover however it does have a almost 2 ton payload. I dont need this payload or plan to use it.
The logbook according to seller states no weights and just "plg". Google provides these numbers 4.5ton GVWR and 5.6 ton towing capacity.
Looking for a pickup to tow 3.5 ton, modern pickups didnt really hit that till 2012/10k+ price wise, this however would work if i can tow that much on my B+E.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Ford-F350/25474060...
2.8 ton weight according to google which I would say ok thats just a B class as its basically same weight as my Range Rover however it does have a almost 2 ton payload. I dont need this payload or plan to use it.
The logbook according to seller states no weights and just "plg". Google provides these numbers 4.5ton GVWR and 5.6 ton towing capacity.
Looking for a pickup to tow 3.5 ton, modern pickups didnt really hit that till 2012/10k+ price wise, this however would work if i can tow that much on my B+E.
Slow said:
Me again....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Ford-F350/25474060...
2.8 ton weight according to google which I would say ok thats just a B class as its basically same weight as my Range Rover however it does have a almost 2 ton payload. I dont need this payload or plan to use it.
The logbook according to seller states no weights and just "plg". Google provides these numbers 4.5ton GVWR and 5.6 ton towing capacity.
Looking for a pickup to tow 3.5 ton, modern pickups didnt really hit that till 2012/10k+ price wise, this however would work if i can tow that much on my B+E.
2.8 ton with a 2 ton payload would put it over 3500 kg MAM so not drivable on a post 97 B licence anyway before you start worrying about trailers. The importer may have downplated it when it came into the country to make it easier to sell. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Ford-F350/25474060...
2.8 ton weight according to google which I would say ok thats just a B class as its basically same weight as my Range Rover however it does have a almost 2 ton payload. I dont need this payload or plan to use it.
The logbook according to seller states no weights and just "plg". Google provides these numbers 4.5ton GVWR and 5.6 ton towing capacity.
Looking for a pickup to tow 3.5 ton, modern pickups didnt really hit that till 2012/10k+ price wise, this however would work if i can tow that much on my B+E.
Should be a solid option for towing a 3500kg trailer, though.
Slow said:
Me again....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Ford-F350/25474060...
2.8 ton weight according to google which I would say ok thats just a B class as its basically same weight as my Range Rover however it does have a almost 2 ton payload. I dont need this payload or plan to use it.
The logbook according to seller states no weights and just "plg". Google provides these numbers 4.5ton GVWR and 5.6 ton towing capacity.
Looking for a pickup to tow 3.5 ton, modern pickups didnt really hit that till 2012/10k+ price wise, this however would work if i can tow that much on my B+E.
If you want to tow 3,500kg with a 4,500kg vehicle that’s surely going to be a C+E.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Ford-F350/25474060...
2.8 ton weight according to google which I would say ok thats just a B class as its basically same weight as my Range Rover however it does have a almost 2 ton payload. I dont need this payload or plan to use it.
The logbook according to seller states no weights and just "plg". Google provides these numbers 4.5ton GVWR and 5.6 ton towing capacity.
Looking for a pickup to tow 3.5 ton, modern pickups didnt really hit that till 2012/10k+ price wise, this however would work if i can tow that much on my B+E.
ETA: as you rightly acknowledge here:
Slow said:
“ Category C1
You can drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500kg MAM (with a trailer up to 750kg).
Category C1E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg.
You can drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500kg MAM (with a trailer up to 750kg).
Category C1E
You can drive C1 category vehicles with a trailer over 750kg.
Slow said:
I realise the MAM is miles over my normal B licence.
However if the logbook states no weights how would either myself or the guy selling it find out if it has been downplated to a regular B licence or not?
The gross weight can surely be found on the chassis plate? However if the logbook states no weights how would either myself or the guy selling it find out if it has been downplated to a regular B licence or not?
I mean if it’s a massive pickup and it’s 2.8t dry then it is massively wishful thinking that the gross is going to be manageable sub 3,500kg and doable without a ‘C’.
HustleRussell said:
Slow said:
I realise the MAM is miles over my normal B licence.
However if the logbook states no weights how would either myself or the guy selling it find out if it has been downplated to a regular B licence or not?
The gross weight can surely be found on the chassis plate? However if the logbook states no weights how would either myself or the guy selling it find out if it has been downplated to a regular B licence or not?
I mean if it’s a massive pickup and it’s 2.8t dry then it is massively wishful thinking that the gross is going to be manageable sub 3,500kg and doable without a ‘C’.
HustleRussell said:
Slow said:
I realise the MAM is miles over my normal B licence.
However if the logbook states no weights how would either myself or the guy selling it find out if it has been downplated to a regular B licence or not?
The gross weight can surely be found on the chassis plate? However if the logbook states no weights how would either myself or the guy selling it find out if it has been downplated to a regular B licence or not?
I mean if it’s a massive pickup and it’s 2.8t dry then it is massively wishful thinking that the gross is going to be manageable sub 3,500kg and doable without a ‘C’.
Most yank trucks are downplated to 3500kg if brought into the country by an importer as it simplifies things, Class 4/7 MOT rather than HGV test, less of a headache to insure and drivable by anyone with a post 97 licence. The chassis plate should have been altered to reflect the lower weights. However if someone has brought a vehicle in themselves you've no idea what they've done or registered it as. For example a mate of mine was well impressed to find his V2 Subaru Impreza WRX STI was registered as a 2.0 GL when it was imported in the 90s, cost him peanuts to insure at 19
Anyway surely the whole point of the fifth wheel design is that you can put a load of nose weight in the towing vehicle- how are you going to do that when you have only 700kg to play with, and your passengers, fuel etc out of that?
Come to think of it, what is the point of owning a massive 3.5t pickup truck which has a payload similar to a normal estate car?
Come to think of it, what is the point of owning a massive 3.5t pickup truck which has a payload similar to a normal estate car?
HustleRussell said:
Anyway surely the whole point of the fifth wheel design is that you can put a load of nose weight in the towing vehicle- how are you going to do that when you have only 700kg to play with, and your passengers, fuel etc out of that?
Come to think of it, what is the point of owning a massive 3.5t pickup truck which has a payload similar to a normal estate car?
This isnt for a 5th wheel, the maths on making that work doesnt add up enough. Had been in contact with the companies involved and it would be close to 20k for trailer/conversion etc.Come to think of it, what is the point of owning a massive 3.5t pickup truck which has a payload similar to a normal estate car?
This is just me trying to get the cheapest possible pickup that isnt a Defender which will tow 3.5 ton due to needing one now.
HustleRussell said:
Anyway surely the whole point of the fifth wheel design is that you can put a load of nose weight in the towing vehicle- how are you going to do that when you have only 700kg to play with, and your passengers, fuel etc out of that?
Come to think of it, what is the point of owning a massive 3.5t pickup truck which has a payload similar to a normal estate car?
"Because it looks right"Come to think of it, what is the point of owning a massive 3.5t pickup truck which has a payload similar to a normal estate car?
My scaffolder uses the Sprinter pickups (has about 20) and I questioned him because they can legally carry less weight than a Transit and the above was his answer - if it looks right then you don't get stopped
When I had a 5th wheel trailer I spoke to VOSA at length and the end result was that they don't stop 5th wheels because the rules are so complex and they rarely stop Private people regardless
If they do stop them they tend to look at axle weight ratings and tyre load ratings as they are simple to check
I was once stopped by the Police in a "Monster Truck" it ended up with 3 Police cars all looking and measuring things for almost 2 hours - I never heard from them again - they just want an easy nick and avoid the awkward stuff
Slow said:
This isnt for a 5th wheel, the maths on making that work doesnt add up enough. Had been in contact with the companies involved and it would be close to 20k for trailer/conversion etc.
This is just me trying to get the cheapest possible pickup that isnt a Defender which will tow 3.5 ton due to needing one now.
What about an Isuzu Dmax? I think from 2013 onwards they can tow 3.5t. This is just me trying to get the cheapest possible pickup that isnt a Defender which will tow 3.5 ton due to needing one now.
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