Car Nicked From Dealer - What Do I Do Now?
Discussion
TL;DR - bought car two and a bit weeks ago. It broke down on way home. Dealer collected it, hasn't fixed it, and it's been nicked this morning. Never had this happen before, need advice.
Long:
I bought an Alfa Romeo MiTo for effectively £2k on 23rd March (my gorydamn birthday...) from a second hand car dealer in a city a hundred miles or so from where I live. On the test drive around the block it had a little bit less poke than I expected, but as I'm downsizing to effectively half the capacity I figured that was probably just my expectations. Bought the car. Turned out it wasn't me, and ended up with the most terrifying drive of my life in the few miles to the first services, where I left it and called the car dealer to explain what had happened. In hindsight should have just gotten off the motorway and bimbled home and take it to a garage a heck of a lot nearer, but hey, we're always wiser in hindsight...
They collected it on the Sunday, and they reckoned they could get it fixed for the next week, which I thought was... I could live with it.
Delays over Easter weren't their fault - I had to post the keys back to them and Royal Mail waited until last Wednesday, so they couldn't start until last week, and it was supposed to be ready this week.
And I got a call after I finished work today to tell me it has been nicked from the garage they had sent it to for repairs around 1am last night.
My policy is fully comprehensive, and I've just had a call to my insurer to notify them, but I haven't submitted a claim yet because I've been advised by family members that they should have policies for this kind of thing, and all this is just bouncing around the skull and... You have to laugh, don't you? I try.
The car itself met everything on my critera except being a little high mileage, and frankly I have enough going on that keeps me awake at night, and I really don't need to be chasing up a car dealer for a refund as well.
That said, I simply can't afford to write off said £2k. I also can't afford to wait more than a week; my workplace have been incredibly helpful in letting me borrow a Fiesta van for personal use, but my boss does need it back as it's a working vehicle on the farm and it also needs a service and MOT.
The dealer is a hundred miles away. Car probably still is too, given it wouldn't do more than 35mph...
I'm honestly too stressed to think properly; right now all of this is just the latest example in what has been a right annus horribilis from the start - frankly, at this point I'm not even surprised it's been nicked, such has been the year - and I need advice.
Long:
I bought an Alfa Romeo MiTo for effectively £2k on 23rd March (my gorydamn birthday...) from a second hand car dealer in a city a hundred miles or so from where I live. On the test drive around the block it had a little bit less poke than I expected, but as I'm downsizing to effectively half the capacity I figured that was probably just my expectations. Bought the car. Turned out it wasn't me, and ended up with the most terrifying drive of my life in the few miles to the first services, where I left it and called the car dealer to explain what had happened. In hindsight should have just gotten off the motorway and bimbled home and take it to a garage a heck of a lot nearer, but hey, we're always wiser in hindsight...
They collected it on the Sunday, and they reckoned they could get it fixed for the next week, which I thought was... I could live with it.
Delays over Easter weren't their fault - I had to post the keys back to them and Royal Mail waited until last Wednesday, so they couldn't start until last week, and it was supposed to be ready this week.
And I got a call after I finished work today to tell me it has been nicked from the garage they had sent it to for repairs around 1am last night.
My policy is fully comprehensive, and I've just had a call to my insurer to notify them, but I haven't submitted a claim yet because I've been advised by family members that they should have policies for this kind of thing, and all this is just bouncing around the skull and... You have to laugh, don't you? I try.
The car itself met everything on my critera except being a little high mileage, and frankly I have enough going on that keeps me awake at night, and I really don't need to be chasing up a car dealer for a refund as well.
That said, I simply can't afford to write off said £2k. I also can't afford to wait more than a week; my workplace have been incredibly helpful in letting me borrow a Fiesta van for personal use, but my boss does need it back as it's a working vehicle on the farm and it also needs a service and MOT.
The dealer is a hundred miles away. Car probably still is too, given it wouldn't do more than 35mph...
I'm honestly too stressed to think properly; right now all of this is just the latest example in what has been a right annus horribilis from the start - frankly, at this point I'm not even surprised it's been nicked, such has been the year - and I need advice.
untakenname said:
If you've posted the keys back then surely it's in their hands?
I'd ask them for a crime reference number anyway as they might have realised that the damage to a £2k car is terminal and not worth fixing.
I posted the keys back because they needed them for whatever they were doing with the car. I have the impression that the garage that's working on it is someone separate to them though, one of the questions I'm waiting for a response on.I'd ask them for a crime reference number anyway as they might have realised that the damage to a £2k car is terminal and not worth fixing.
I'm told it is just a blocked DPF. But you may well be right given general price craziness these days...
MrBen.911 said:
I would submit a claim on your policy. Give your insurers the details of the garage and they can look to recover the loss from the garage's motor trade insurers, but in the short term, you just need your claim paid so you can move on, and trying to recover it yourself from the garage is likely to add to your stress.
This was also what I thought of, but the complication is that I had an accident at the start of the year that wrote off the previous car... I know the insurers would pay out, they actually paid out more than expected for the first accident, but I do have to weigh up the impact of two write-off claims in 6 months. I suppose I just have to come to terms with that the car is now gone...
Bill said:
Less than 30 days, I'd just reject it and ask for your money back.
Been 18 days so far, so... How strict is that? Like, do I have to reject as soon as the reason for rejection is... Whatever word it is I'm looking for and can't find. Actionable? Is it something I'd have to do tomorrow as they've closed for today, or can it be left until day 29? How does the car being stolen affect the right to reject?Monkeylegend said:
As Bill said above, failing that google "Bailment" OP, you might be able to recover your money this way.
Ok, I've looked it up. Forgive me if I seem a bit dense here as I try to get a fairly stressed head around it; I'm the bailor for the car dealer seems straightforward, but if I am right that it's a different company who own the garage where the car was nicked from - and I have asked to check on this - how does that affect things? Would that mean I have to wait for the car dealer to get things sorted with the garage?I'll have to get that clarified tomorrow...
Thank you all.
petrolbloke said:
Sounds suspect to me.
Cheap car with a fault that might not be cost effective to fix gets 'stolen' while the garage are fixing it. Dealer keeps their ££ and the poor buyer claims on their insurance. Easy way to profit from knackered old cars. I'd be surprised if a faulty diesel Mito would be desirable to a car thief but maybe it was taken with the keys or not actually stolen at all.
Have you got any more information about the dealer?
I'd also be asking for full details of where the car was when it was stolen, if it was stolen with keys etc.
How did you pay for the car?
I'd be looking to avoid claiming as it'll affect you for years. Being a relatively cheap car I doubt it'd be worth the insurers investigating/pursuing anyone else for costs.
This is quite a concerning prospect, and would be quite in keeping with the year to date...Cheap car with a fault that might not be cost effective to fix gets 'stolen' while the garage are fixing it. Dealer keeps their ££ and the poor buyer claims on their insurance. Easy way to profit from knackered old cars. I'd be surprised if a faulty diesel Mito would be desirable to a car thief but maybe it was taken with the keys or not actually stolen at all.
Have you got any more information about the dealer?
I'd also be asking for full details of where the car was when it was stolen, if it was stolen with keys etc.
How did you pay for the car?
I'd be looking to avoid claiming as it'll affect you for years. Being a relatively cheap car I doubt it'd be worth the insurers investigating/pursuing anyone else for costs.
Not sure what I can say under naming and shaming rules.
Would you be so kind as to make a list of the other questions alluded to with the "etc."? Head isn't doing so well right now, I'd almost certainly miss something important to ask about.
Bank transfer.
Yes. Insurance has already gone up massively this year thanks to how it started, I really want to avoid another hike...
But then, if you are right, insurance claim is the only option - the odds of getting a refund out of someone who'd fake a car theft are rather dismal.
Monkeylegend said:
I can't answer your questions re bailment, I just decided to google to see what the law said, but maybe worth delving into a bit deeper.
The best solution is Bill's suggestion though.
It's definitely looking like that he's right.The best solution is Bill's suggestion though.
Thank you chaps.
Posting from mobile, so quoting is a pain...
The rejection the car debate - I see what you (123DWA, Sheepshanks, VSKeith etc al.) are saying, but equally the car was collected from the first services I passed by them, and the keys were returned by post. The only bit of the car I have is the new keeper supplement of the V5c. (and we'd all agree that isn't actually part of the car as such) It has in a roundabout way been returned, even if it is no longer on the forecourt because of the theft.
In this case, the dealer has been entrusted a car they had previously sold to repair, and they've subsequently entrusted it to someone else to repair it, and it's been stolen from them. If this understanding is correct - my request for clarification has yet to be answered - then are we not both subject to losses due to the same third party's action/inaction, and therefore both entitled to a bailment claim from the third party?
The cause for rejecting the car is that it was not fit for purpose, and I was so worked up on the night that I let them talk me into letting them repair it. If it was fit for purpose, none of us would be having this conversation.
On payment by credit card - Unfortunately, both deposit and final payment were paid by bank transfer.
On police crime reference number - the dealer has sent me a number, but I don't how to check it; call 111 and talk to someone?
Rest I'll come back to when I can, used up my lunch break...
The rejection the car debate - I see what you (123DWA, Sheepshanks, VSKeith etc al.) are saying, but equally the car was collected from the first services I passed by them, and the keys were returned by post. The only bit of the car I have is the new keeper supplement of the V5c. (and we'd all agree that isn't actually part of the car as such) It has in a roundabout way been returned, even if it is no longer on the forecourt because of the theft.
In this case, the dealer has been entrusted a car they had previously sold to repair, and they've subsequently entrusted it to someone else to repair it, and it's been stolen from them. If this understanding is correct - my request for clarification has yet to be answered - then are we not both subject to losses due to the same third party's action/inaction, and therefore both entitled to a bailment claim from the third party?
The cause for rejecting the car is that it was not fit for purpose, and I was so worked up on the night that I let them talk me into letting them repair it. If it was fit for purpose, none of us would be having this conversation.
On payment by credit card - Unfortunately, both deposit and final payment were paid by bank transfer.
On police crime reference number - the dealer has sent me a number, but I don't how to check it; call 111 and talk to someone?
Rest I'll come back to when I can, used up my lunch break...
I've just finished a phone call with the dealer and a separate phone call with West Midlands Police after giving them the number the car; they've taken my details, added the car to the ANPR list etc. and reassured that they are going to investigate. They say I need to put the claim through on my insurance, so that settles that part of the debate.
The call to the dealer has given me the name of the company from where the car was stolen, and it's been said it was stolen from outside the garage premises, and they've offered to fund part of the excess as a goodwill gesture. We'll see what happens.
Doesn't seem like much point trying to reject the car if I have to claim off my insurance anyway, so now typing a quick update on PH while on hold to them.
The call to the dealer has given me the name of the company from where the car was stolen, and it's been said it was stolen from outside the garage premises, and they've offered to fund part of the excess as a goodwill gesture. We'll see what happens.
Doesn't seem like much point trying to reject the car if I have to claim off my insurance anyway, so now typing a quick update on PH while on hold to them.
Issue by issue:
Crime Reference Number:
They did find it, although it did take a good five minutes. They've generated a new one anyway as part of logging my details.
Garage from where the car was stolen:
I have the name. But, I haven't yet been able to find it as the name is rather generic. No CCTV yet, and I have asked for it.
Has the car actually been stolen:
Looking at the money, it is a £2k car. Fixing the car gives a roughly £1400 income, saying it's been nicked and offering half towards the excess gives £1750 income, so, we're looking at £350 more by saying it's been nicked. I wouldn't fake a car theft for £350. But... the odds of getting caught aren't exactly against you these days. It's possible it could have actually been stolen, but without additional evidence it looks dodgy.
Rejecting the car:
What's indisputable is that I definitely should have been much more assertive about not accepting the car. I suppose it's academic, but this leaves a very bad taste... I don't know though. It doesn't feel right that I'm being penalised for someone else's lax security. That's how it feels. And yes PistonRing, you are correct about a city beginning with B. Which I've just found out that said city has six times more vehicle theft than entire of my home county.
Part of me is hoping things might get better.
Crime Reference Number:
They did find it, although it did take a good five minutes. They've generated a new one anyway as part of logging my details.
Garage from where the car was stolen:
I have the name. But, I haven't yet been able to find it as the name is rather generic. No CCTV yet, and I have asked for it.
Has the car actually been stolen:
Looking at the money, it is a £2k car. Fixing the car gives a roughly £1400 income, saying it's been nicked and offering half towards the excess gives £1750 income, so, we're looking at £350 more by saying it's been nicked. I wouldn't fake a car theft for £350. But... the odds of getting caught aren't exactly against you these days. It's possible it could have actually been stolen, but without additional evidence it looks dodgy.
Rejecting the car:
What's indisputable is that I definitely should have been much more assertive about not accepting the car. I suppose it's academic, but this leaves a very bad taste... I don't know though. It doesn't feel right that I'm being penalised for someone else's lax security. That's how it feels. And yes PistonRing, you are correct about a city beginning with B. Which I've just found out that said city has six times more vehicle theft than entire of my home county.
Part of me is hoping things might get better.
Alex Z said:
Surely this depends on the amount of time that has passed? If the faults have been reported and agreed to be present by the dealer, and they’ve tried and failed to fix them before the car goes missing, then a rejection may still be possible.
If it’s been “stolen” immediately after the first report and they’ve not had time to look at it then clearly not.
We're now on day 20 since purchase, and the car was stolen on day 18.If it’s been “stolen” immediately after the first report and they’ve not had time to look at it then clearly not.
Went wrong Saturday 23rd. Collected by recovery truck on the 24th. On Monday 25th it was booked in for investigating what exactly was the problem for Thursday 28th. They needed the keys back and were delayed until Wednesday 3rd, and I was told to expect it to be ready this week. So, we can say at least a week, which was the estimated time from the dealer, who was expecting to have the car ready this week.
And then it got nicked. Or "nicked", delete as appropriate.
Still no reply to the query on whether it was stolen with the keys or not, and on the CCTV issue, but I wasn't home early enough to call them today.
Monkeylegend said:
That will be music to OP's ears.
It does sound reasonable. But being PH, someone else will probably come along and point out a bunch of possible issues, and I'm second-guessing everything...Honestly, I'm metaphorically kicking myself for not being more assertive to begin with.
Latest update - spoken to insurers again to ask what they think, and it does sound like they are considering more investigation as there is definitely the possibility the claim could be transferred to the investigations department. I've got a few more questions from them to put to the car dealer regarding the exact location of the car and CCTV coverage. Boss has rejuggled things to let me borrow the works fiesta van another week. Police have given me the new crime reference number. Still nothing from the car dealer, so that's who I will be having an in-depth call with tomorrow.
I still don't know what to think here.
I can definitely see a financial incentive to fake stealing the car, and the always useful advice is to follow the money. But equally, he did call the police about the theft, and he has voluntarily offered some help towards the insurance excess...
Being genuine, or buttering up the mark?
I don't know.
I do know I'm a heck of a lot less stressed than I was when I started the thread. Which is good, because I was in a right dark spot then. I do appreciate the comments, some quite thought-provoking stuff here chaps.
I still don't know what to think here.
I can definitely see a financial incentive to fake stealing the car, and the always useful advice is to follow the money. But equally, he did call the police about the theft, and he has voluntarily offered some help towards the insurance excess...
Being genuine, or buttering up the mark?
I don't know.
I do know I'm a heck of a lot less stressed than I was when I started the thread. Which is good, because I was in a right dark spot then. I do appreciate the comments, some quite thought-provoking stuff here chaps.
rlg43p said:
Any update on the outcome OP?
Essentially, no change since Friday's update. Still chasing for CCTV.Insurer reckons it's a split liability claim.
I think it's been broken for parts too by now. Which is a shame. I've had some right scrap cars -the MiTo was the most expensive car I've had by a long way, even after adjusting for inflation; parents raised me the bangernomics route, which I was hoping to avoid - and the MiTo had loads of life left in it compared to the various dilapidated vehicles that have been on the drive over the decades.
I might be older than I'd like to be, but I'm not Honda Jazz old. (No offence intended to any Honda Jazz owners) Still, any port in a storm... Had two Hondas actually, of the two wheeled variety, and both didn't end well. One started knocking, the other expired in a cloud of white smoke.
...
Maybe I should get an EV.
So... The latest update, and I've asked what exactly the split liability means. Essentially it means they believe part of the cost of the claim can be recovered from the other parties, and if they recover all the cost of the claim, then they won't count the claim against my no claims discount. (other insurers may vary)
The other part of the email and phone call today to inform me that the insurer has gotten a different company involved to do the work of dragging details out of the dealer and the other garage. Which is...
Well, hopefully a good sign.
The other part of the email and phone call today to inform me that the insurer has gotten a different company involved to do the work of dragging details out of the dealer and the other garage. Which is...
Well, hopefully a good sign.
BertBert said:
Thanks for the update OP. Are your insurance company going to pay out for the loss anyway?
I was hoping so, but I simply can't wait any longer, and I've had to replace the car today. Only getting 5 months tax stings a bit, but it really couldn't be helped; the only option available to me now for a temporary car was hiring as I've begged and borrowed for as long as I could, and wasting one month's tax is cheaper. But on the bright side, dropping to a £600 Vauxhall Corsa saves £52 a year on insurance, and I now get a working radio, which the works van didn't have.
Nope, the investigation has already been closed. Got a text saying "In regards to your report of a Theft of a motor vehicle, this report has been filed pending any further evidence coming to light".
So...
I would like to think they've done what you've suggested, but I strongly suspect the extent of their willing involvement has ended.
So...
I would like to think they've done what you've suggested, but I strongly suspect the extent of their willing involvement has ended.
BertBert said:
Surely the OP just gets paid from the claim on his insurance and the insurance co decides whether it wants to pursue a third party?
Yeah, but the OP also does not want to be involved in some sort of insurance fraud attempt, which is my biggest worry about just taking a payout and moving on with life...Nothing new yet otherwise, still waiting for replies from everyone else involved.
BertBert said:
Who's going to do that then?
Hopefully the company the insurers have outsourced the claim to, it's something I'm going to ask about when they call me tomorrow to discuss the claim.Dealer finally responded to say they gave the insurer the details after the insurer called them, which is something else to check too.
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