Help with a Driving Sim Choices - learn left foot braking

Help with a Driving Sim Choices - learn left foot braking

Author
Discussion

RacerMike

4,228 posts

212 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
sassthathoopie said:
The desire to learn left foot braking is partially down to a relatively recent car purchase. My 1978 Alpine A310 is running triple Webers, and was built to Gr4 specs by Kevin Jones of GTO Engineering - he sold it to me after owning it ~25yrs.

It has needed some working up so I haven’t yet driven it pedal to the metal (GRP ;-)

But it’s a rear engined V6, weighs less than a tonne, and even when not running on song is v rapid. Add in left hand drive, slightly eccentric driving position and highly adjustable suspension, I feel like I want to be able to bring my A game if push comes to shove at some point in the future: Left foot braking should be a way to better control weight transfer, which might be handy when ~65% of the car’s weight wants to overtake the front wheels!
Not at all telling you you’re wrong, but left foot braking won’t help the weight balance any more than right foot braking will! Learning to trail brake definitely will, but the only reason you might left foot brake in a manual is if a corner is perhaps not quite flat, but a brush of the brakes means it is. In a turbo car this may help slightly on lap time given the fact it’s remaining fully on boost, although if it’s a modern car it probably won’t since their boost control is so much better than it used to be, so a small lift won’t dump all the pressure.

All the things you’ve listed (particularly the offset pedal box) make it very much not the kind of car to be trying to left foot brake in. You’ll just end up pressing the wrong pedal or pressing two at once!

Either way, lovely car and it’ll be a hoot to drive. Sim racing may help improve your driving techniques, but I guess all I’m saying is, definitely don’t focus on the left foot braking thing as virtually nobody does it unless they absolutely have to in reality! Unless you’re a Russian YouTuber who likes to pretend his the king of a long German race track of course…laugh


Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 8th May 00:07

shirt

22,700 posts

202 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
Ok I’m interested again. Pics of the A310 please!

sassthathoopie

Original Poster:

875 posts

216 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
shirt said:
Ok I’m interested again. Pics of the A310 please!








The car is completely original aside from the engine build. I have some genuine 70 profile classic Michelin 13" tyres to go on, and I've reset the suspension a little lower since the pics were taken biglaugh

sassthathoopie

Original Poster:

875 posts

216 months

Wednesday 8th May
quotequote all
So today I have bought:

Fanatec CSL Elite+ (PS4)
Fanatec CSL Elite V2 Pedals
Fanatec CSL P1 V2 wheel
Playseat Challenge.

£619 spent so far.

Of course the friendly chap I bought the Playseat Challenge from has a 15nm Clubsport DD+, multiple wheels, an 8020 ally rig running AC nice and smoothly through a really wide curved screen monitor... I can see why this hobby ends up getting expensive!

We had a chat about my proposed GT7 & PSVR2 plan, and he thinks I'd be better going for a PC running AC, possibly without VR so I can afford to run a milder spec PC.

He has offered me his retired gaming PC that he built with a sensible budget in mind 2 years ago, but has since upgraded. Here's the spec:

Ryzen 7 2700 3.2Ghz 8 core CPU
RX590 GPU
AMD Motherboard
PC Case with Cooling fans
16GB RAM

He said it ran AC pretty well on a monitor. Will it run VR via a Quest 2 or Quest 3? or via my 6yo LG 37" Tv that says 50/60Hz on the back. The GPU looks a bit under specced to my 'know nothing' eye.

Many thanks for your continuing assistance.

The Fanatec kit isn't here yet, but I'm sat in the Playseat Challenge and can report that it feels more stable, solid and proper than I was expecting - great recommendation beer

Edited by sassthathoopie on Wednesday 8th May 19:44

ThingsBehindTheSun

248 posts

32 months

Thursday 9th May
quotequote all
I play Assetto Corsa a lot, the advantage of the PC version is the sheer number of mods you can apply.

I admit I only have a Logitech G920 but I left foot brake in all the games I play, hundreds and hundreds of hours of experience of left foot breaking.

Would I do this in a road car? No way, even now when I try it it just feels weird, unnatural and I have little feel of the brake pedal and apply way too much pressure.

I am sure I saw a video of Raikkonen once who said that although he left foot brakes in an F1 car he never does this on the road.

sassthathoopie said:
He has offered me his retired gaming PC that he built with a sensible budget in mind 2 years ago, but has since upgraded. Here's the spec:

Ryzen 7 2700 3.2Ghz 8 core CPU
RX590 GPU
AMD Motherboard
PC Case with Cooling fans
16GB RAM

He said it ran AC pretty well on a monitor. Will it run VR via a Quest 2 or Quest 3? or via my 6yo LG 37" Tv that says 50/60Hz on the back. The GPU looks a bit under specced to my 'know nothing' eye.
How much does he want for the PC? I have tried running my PC through my 3 year old Samsung 43 inch TV and it is unplayable as it seemed to default to 30 frames per second for some reason. Also it looked absolutely rubbish compared to the 165HZ screen on my gaming laptop.


Edited by ThingsBehindTheSun on Thursday 9th May 12:00

Gary C

12,570 posts

180 months

Thursday 9th May
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Not at all telling you you’re wrong, but left foot braking won’t help the weight balance any more than right foot braking will! Learning to trail brake definitely will, but the only reason you might left foot brake in a manual is if a corner is perhaps not quite flat, but a brush of the brakes means it is. In a turbo car this may help slightly on lap time given the fact it’s remaining fully on boost, although if it’s a modern car it probably won’t since their boost control is so much better than it used to be, so a small lift won’t dump all the pressure.

All the things you’ve listed (particularly the offset pedal box) make it very much not the kind of car to be trying to left foot brake in. You’ll just end up pressing the wrong pedal or pressing two at once!

Either way, lovely car and it’ll be a hoot to drive. Sim racing may help improve your driving techniques, but I guess all I’m saying is, definitely don’t focus on the left foot braking thing as virtually nobody does it unless they absolutely have to in reality! Unless you’re a Russian YouTuber who likes to pretend his the king of a long German race track of course…laugh


Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 8th May 00:07
LFB on gravel, especially with a more rearward brake bias and can be used to unsettle the car to help rotation.

RacerMike

4,228 posts

212 months

Thursday 9th May
quotequote all
Gary C said:
RacerMike said:
Not at all telling you you’re wrong, but left foot braking won’t help the weight balance any more than right foot braking will! Learning to trail brake definitely will, but the only reason you might left foot brake in a manual is if a corner is perhaps not quite flat, but a brush of the brakes means it is. In a turbo car this may help slightly on lap time given the fact it’s remaining fully on boost, although if it’s a modern car it probably won’t since their boost control is so much better than it used to be, so a small lift won’t dump all the pressure.

All the things you’ve listed (particularly the offset pedal box) make it very much not the kind of car to be trying to left foot brake in. You’ll just end up pressing the wrong pedal or pressing two at once!

Either way, lovely car and it’ll be a hoot to drive. Sim racing may help improve your driving techniques, but I guess all I’m saying is, definitely don’t focus on the left foot braking thing as virtually nobody does it unless they absolutely have to in reality! Unless you’re a Russian YouTuber who likes to pretend his the king of a long German race track of course…laugh


Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 8th May 00:07
LFB on gravel, especially with a more rearward brake bias and can be used to unsettle the car to help rotation.
Not on the road or track though which was my point. Rallying it can make plenty of sense.

Gary C

12,570 posts

180 months

Thursday 9th May
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Gary C said:
RacerMike said:
Not at all telling you you’re wrong, but left foot braking won’t help the weight balance any more than right foot braking will! Learning to trail brake definitely will, but the only reason you might left foot brake in a manual is if a corner is perhaps not quite flat, but a brush of the brakes means it is. In a turbo car this may help slightly on lap time given the fact it’s remaining fully on boost, although if it’s a modern car it probably won’t since their boost control is so much better than it used to be, so a small lift won’t dump all the pressure.

All the things you’ve listed (particularly the offset pedal box) make it very much not the kind of car to be trying to left foot brake in. You’ll just end up pressing the wrong pedal or pressing two at once!

Either way, lovely car and it’ll be a hoot to drive. Sim racing may help improve your driving techniques, but I guess all I’m saying is, definitely don’t focus on the left foot braking thing as virtually nobody does it unless they absolutely have to in reality! Unless you’re a Russian YouTuber who likes to pretend his the king of a long German race track of course…laugh


Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 8th May 00:07
LFB on gravel, especially with a more rearward brake bias and can be used to unsettle the car to help rotation.
Not on the road or track though which was my point. Rallying it can make plenty of sense.
Oh, yes though the OP did mention Gravel.

Well actually 'loose surfaces' was the term biggrin

sassthathoopie

Original Poster:

875 posts

216 months

Thursday 9th May
quotequote all
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
How much does he want for the PC? I have tried running my PC through my 3 year old Samsung 43 inch TV and it is unplayable as it seemed to default to 30 frames per second for some reason. Also it looked absolutely rubbish compared to the 165HZ screen on my gaming laptop.


Edited by ThingsBehindTheSun on Thursday 9th May 12:00
Thanks for the heads up on the TV. He wants £480. Seems a bit steep to me.

sassthathoopie

Original Poster:

875 posts

216 months

Thursday 9th May
quotequote all
Gary C said:
RacerMike said:
Gary C said:
RacerMike said:
Not at all telling you you’re wrong, but left foot braking won’t help the weight balance any more than right foot braking will! Learning to trail brake definitely will, but the only reason you might left foot brake in a manual is if a corner is perhaps not quite flat, but a brush of the brakes means it is. In a turbo car this may help slightly on lap time given the fact it’s remaining fully on boost, although if it’s a modern car it probably won’t since their boost control is so much better than it used to be, so a small lift won’t dump all the pressure.

All the things you’ve listed (particularly the offset pedal box) make it very much not the kind of car to be trying to left foot brake in. You’ll just end up pressing the wrong pedal or pressing two at once!

Either way, lovely car and it’ll be a hoot to drive. Sim racing may help improve your driving techniques, but I guess all I’m saying is, definitely don’t focus on the left foot braking thing as virtually nobody does it unless they absolutely have to in reality! Unless you’re a Russian YouTuber who likes to pretend his the king of a long German race track of course…laugh


Edited by RacerMike on Wednesday 8th May 00:07
LFB on gravel, especially with a more rearward brake bias and can be used to unsettle the car to help rotation.
Not on the road or track though which was my point. Rallying it can make plenty of sense.
Oh, yes though the OP did mention Gravel.

Well actually 'loose surfaces' was the term biggrin
Loose surfaces was my first thought, yes

Richard Tuthill in lightweight a rear engined machine


Jimmy Broadbent in a lightweight mid/rear engined machine


Although I seem to remember reading a thread (through google translate) on a French Alpine forum about it being a handy technique in the wet on tarmac...

sassthathoopie

Original Poster:

875 posts

216 months

Yesterday (21:35)
quotequote all
Little bit of an update. Maybe helpful for some other newbies?

When my Fanatec CSL Elite + (PS4) showed up it turned out it was a 1.1 version which looks very similar but isn't Playstation compatible frown

So I sent it back to CeX where I had ordered it from. The process took much longer than it needed to and they put the price up £20 before I was able to reorder. The frustration caused me to look elsewhere, and I managed to save £60 by buying at Cash Converters, and was also able to speak with a real person and confirm they were sending a PS4 version.

After much thought I decided that a PS5 would be a better introduction to sim racing for me. So I found a used one locally on FB marketplace, and followed up with purchases of GT7 and EA Sports WRC. I haven't tried WRC yet as I wanted to try to build some consistency and there was already so much to get used to. The PS5 decision was made because Sony announced they are trying to make the PSVR2 functional with PCs, and so the upgrade path to a PC would then just be the hardware rather than a headset as well.

The inventory so far:
Fanatec CSL Elite+ (PS4)
Fanatec CSL Elite V2 Pedals
Fanatec CSL P1 V2 wheel
Playseat Challenge
PS5 (+CoD MW2 included)
Gran Turismo 7 (disc, new)
EA Sports WRC (disc, new)
TOTAL: £844

I'm keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a PSVR2 set, but scammers are thick on the ground in this marketplace.

My very old Dell laptop refuses to download the Fanatec driver software, and there is no Mac option as yet. But the set up all works in GT7, and works better now that I found a Fanatec forum thread describing a good base setting for my wheelbase on GT7 and adjusted to that using the wheel's own settings display in the rim.

Before the replacement wheelbase arrived I had about 4 hours driving on the PS5 controller: Actually surprisingly good - I had never tried a hand control that recognised motion before. That said, as soon as I got everything set up right I was immediately quicker.

I've had to work quite hard to limit the brake flex on the Playseat Challenge and I'm not there yet. Have had to drop the brake strength down to 10% to try to get some consistency, and that with supporting wood blocks and spectra strops trying to limit the flex... It does pack down quickly though.

Finally left foot braking: I'm trying to get through the Clubman + 350pp Mini race at Goodwood, and getting thoroughly terrorised by the red mini curse

I've had to work quite hard at tuning to get a car that isn't left for dust by the others, and find myself essentially driving a SWB 911! I have 194kg of ballast at the back of the car and it wants to pirouette into Woodcote and the chicane. Brake bias adjustment is next for consideration. However I found this brake training video which teaches left foot braking at the end (14:50+) and it definitely seems to stabilise a tail happy car. I could completely see why it wouldn't be a thing in a Caterham though.

Am really enjoying getting up to speed. Thank you everyone who offered advice. The wheelbase seems plenty powerful, and the brake pedal is good, but would be improved with a better mount and possibly some softer elastomers.


Edited by sassthathoopie on Monday 27th May 21:42