Do any classics truly compare with modern cars?
Discussion
anonymous said:
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Different concepts, different purpose. An original Lotus Elan would be the more appropriate comparison.
anonymous said:
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Not with original tyres and brakes. With a couple of choice upgrades, though...
anonymous said:
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At least, it's definitely a better drive than a Mk III of IV GTI...
v8thunder said:
Because classic sports cars were never really built for posers, they make for a far more 'involved' driving experience, especially as they were made pre-numpty aids. I'd say the only thing most classics would benefit from, driving-wise, is ABS and a brake upgrade.
I disagree with ABS, don't like the stuff and feel no need for it, better brakes may be useful, but I run my austin seven on standard brakes, even with the engine mods. I have no problem with this as it stops just fine, you just have to press the peddle harder thats all.
outrageous - how can you claim that Austin Seven brakes are any good!?!.
In my experience they barely work at all! (yes, even when well adjusted)
..and to follow on from 900T-R`s point of comparing an original Elan with an MX-5, EVO did exactly that by tracktesting an Elan Sprint versus an MX5 and an MR2. Guess which lapped quickest? (and had the smallest engine).
In my experience they barely work at all! (yes, even when well adjusted)
..and to follow on from 900T-R`s point of comparing an original Elan with an MX-5, EVO did exactly that by tracktesting an Elan Sprint versus an MX5 and an MR2. Guess which lapped quickest? (and had the smallest engine).
I would agree that modern cars are mostly too refined, user friendly, gadget filled and designed by focus groups . The driving experience is just no longer there with a lot of them.
I have a 9 year old Corrado, and in my view that car is a lot more fun than anything currently made by VW. I've driven an R32 (which is the most interesting car VW make at the moment) and it's just a sterile experience compared with the Corrado; there's little steering feel the throttle & brakes have little feel in them and you are over isolated from the elements outside the car. Although the car is at least as fast as my VR6 *it just doesn't feel like it*.
Where's the fun gone from our cars nowadays? Give me a Mk2 Golf over a MkV Golf anyday.
John
I have a 9 year old Corrado, and in my view that car is a lot more fun than anything currently made by VW. I've driven an R32 (which is the most interesting car VW make at the moment) and it's just a sterile experience compared with the Corrado; there's little steering feel the throttle & brakes have little feel in them and you are over isolated from the elements outside the car. Although the car is at least as fast as my VR6 *it just doesn't feel like it*.
Where's the fun gone from our cars nowadays? Give me a Mk2 Golf over a MkV Golf anyday.
John
I used to drive a Gilbern Invader MkIII as an everyday car. It had (and still has) a stage 2 Rover V8 powerplant hooked up to a 4 speed ford box with over-drive. It was amazing fun, but I used to spend most weekends fixing it!
It's now owned by a chap called Philip Ivimey (reg FTY917L):
Now lacking the old mag-slots, she used to sport.
It's now owned by a chap called Philip Ivimey (reg FTY917L):
Now lacking the old mag-slots, she used to sport.
although my 1978 Cavalier 2.0 couldn't hope to keep up with a modern car in crash test, luxury items etc...
you'd be surprised how little difference there is between my '78 2.0 and a 2.0 Vectra or Mondeo from 1998 vintage... barely any acceloration difference at all (more modern versions with 2.0 power are getting significantly faster to offset their weight gain now though)
top speed is better due to better gear ratios (and an extra gear!)
also, although it fundamentally doesn't handle as well as the modern saloons it will not be shamed by them, with the fitment of wider tyres only (up from 165 to 195, before i fiddled with the suspension) it actually produced more grip that those hateful FWD repmobiles...
one factory fit option my 26 year old saloon has over anything from about 1985 onwards is CHARACTER!!!
you'd be surprised how little difference there is between my '78 2.0 and a 2.0 Vectra or Mondeo from 1998 vintage... barely any acceloration difference at all (more modern versions with 2.0 power are getting significantly faster to offset their weight gain now though)
top speed is better due to better gear ratios (and an extra gear!)
also, although it fundamentally doesn't handle as well as the modern saloons it will not be shamed by them, with the fitment of wider tyres only (up from 165 to 195, before i fiddled with the suspension) it actually produced more grip that those hateful FWD repmobiles...
one factory fit option my 26 year old saloon has over anything from about 1985 onwards is CHARACTER!!!
Many old cars have more elaborate suspension designs than the cheap and nasty McPherson struts which are so common these days, and a lot of the reason for good handling in modern cars is advances in tyre technology. Put modern tyres on a classic and maybe tweak the suspension a bit and you often have pretty good handling.
Or the alternative is just to choose your "modern" manufacturer carefully.
I drive a Marcos LM500 and apart from styling changes and such like, its not much different from one you could have bought in the 70s.
No ABS, no airbags, no traction control just 350 bhp rwd fun. Its a classic without the rust
Course....the 58 Plymouth I'm currently remortgaging the house to restore has that in spades
I drive a Marcos LM500 and apart from styling changes and such like, its not much different from one you could have bought in the 70s.
No ABS, no airbags, no traction control just 350 bhp rwd fun. Its a classic without the rust
Course....the 58 Plymouth I'm currently remortgaging the house to restore has that in spades
When the G35s first came out, I was talking to a guy who just bought a nice coupe. After giving him the obligatory numbers spiel on my car (0-60, quarter mile, handling whatnot), he gets angry and exclaims, "well why the 
didn't I just buy one of those?!!!"
Decided not to tell him about the fact that it rides about ten times harsher than his car, has 50 times more problems, and is completely impractical (though those can also be considered Lotus traits as well as classic traits
)
My other classic, a 55 Chevrolet, does not compare with any modern cars in any way shape or form, even after recieving a more modern engine. Except maybe practicality, imagine how many bodies you could fit in the trunk. That said, most people who come up to me and ask me about it would still rather have it than whatever they drive. It wallows like a pig, has no air conditioning, and HORRIBLE brakes, but it does have charm. And it's fairly quick for what it is.
dan
didn't I just buy one of those?!!!" Decided not to tell him about the fact that it rides about ten times harsher than his car, has 50 times more problems, and is completely impractical (though those can also be considered Lotus traits as well as classic traits
) My other classic, a 55 Chevrolet, does not compare with any modern cars in any way shape or form, even after recieving a more modern engine. Except maybe practicality, imagine how many bodies you could fit in the trunk
. That said, most people who come up to me and ask me about it would still rather have it than whatever they drive. It wallows like a pig, has no air conditioning, and HORRIBLE brakes, but it does have charm. And it's fairly quick for what it is. dan
well, er, yes. they go, change direction and stop (eventually) so they compare in all the functions required of motorised transport.
my old bentley although it leaks, is draughfty, little/no heating actually surpasses many modern cars. pray tell.
at nearly 60 years old it still does all the required functions and can tramp along at motorway speeds all day. the technology is simple and robust (though state of the art for its time), built to last and EASILY FIXED but most importantly it has no black boxes or computers to:
i. give the driver an over inflated opinion of their driving ability.
ii. break down and require a NASA technician to get you started again and cost you £thousands for the privillage.
so classics don't compare they surpass moderns.
my old bentley although it leaks, is draughfty, little/no heating actually surpasses many modern cars. pray tell.
at nearly 60 years old it still does all the required functions and can tramp along at motorway speeds all day. the technology is simple and robust (though state of the art for its time), built to last and EASILY FIXED but most importantly it has no black boxes or computers to:
i. give the driver an over inflated opinion of their driving ability.
ii. break down and require a NASA technician to get you started again and cost you £thousands for the privillage.
so classics don't compare they surpass moderns.
86turbo said:
Decided not to tell him about the fact that it rides about ten times harsher than his car, has 50 times more problems, and is completely impractical (though those can also be considered Lotus traits as well as classic traits
Sorry but a well sorted elan doesn't have a harsh ride.
The long wheel movement and light weight makes it 'joggle' a bit tho. Also a well sorted one shouldn't have that many problems, except the usual fibreglass car electrics and the continual carb fiddling.
Same is true (to some degree) of others, but I mentioned the elan because it doesn't have the parts problems that many of the others do.
Classic American cars are a completely different ball game. I've always quite liked them, but never felt that i would ever use one.
I had 2 E-Types (both S1) and they could hold their own with most modern machinery. I had the opportunity to compare the E with a modern equivalent when, in 1992, I bought a new XJS 4.0. My 3.8 E-Type certainly felt faster.................
Owning a classic is all about a sense of occasion IMHO. It is different to a modern in so many ways but much more rewarding in many of them.
I have found owning a modern TVR to be similar in many ways to running an E-Type. Always warm it up carefully, watch the dials like a hawk, don't hoon about in the wet etc..
The real constant between the E and the Tiv however is the sense of occasion. Every time I get in the Tiv I get the same tingling anticipation that I would get with the E. The difference is that I drive the Tiv a hell of a lot more than I drove the E.
Now if somebody wants to lend me the cash for a DB4 GT................
Owning a classic is all about a sense of occasion IMHO. It is different to a modern in so many ways but much more rewarding in many of them.
I have found owning a modern TVR to be similar in many ways to running an E-Type. Always warm it up carefully, watch the dials like a hawk, don't hoon about in the wet etc..
The real constant between the E and the Tiv however is the sense of occasion. Every time I get in the Tiv I get the same tingling anticipation that I would get with the E. The difference is that I drive the Tiv a hell of a lot more than I drove the E.
Now if somebody wants to lend me the cash for a DB4 GT................
PetrolTed said:
Character is what it's about. Modern cars are all smooth and character isn't obvious.
I got to drive an Audi Quattro a couple of years ago. It was more fun than any of the other exotica that I driving that day!
Perhaps it just reminded me of my old cars, but it smelled different, felt different and drove differently. Fabulous.
Just discovered this forum Ted.
I sold my Quattro about four years ago and have regretted it ever since.
It was an original '81 left hand drive in red.
Up until the day I sold it, it was totally reliable and an utterly phenomenal car, particularly in the wet.
I used to go over the Rannoch Moor in it at 140 plus on a regular basis, and it was a match for most modern supercars.
The beauty of it was the comparative simplicity of the engine management, and the unbeatable K-Jetronic injection system.
But nothing compared to the engine note on full throttle echoing over the moor on a moonlit night.
If you really want to know what handling is about, get a drive in a short wheelbase Quattro Sport, the homologation car for the rally cars.
You'll never forget it!!!
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