RS2000, not its Best Colour?
Discussion
https://angliacarauctions.co.uk/classic-auctions/2...
Contemplating a run over to Kings Lynn for this upcoming Auction and I have been watching the catalogue gradually expand with new entrants . Looking at this RS which to be fare isn't a concours example although its a pretty late one . Its not its best colour and you would need to get your figures right in order to take into account the cost of putting matters right . The trouble is with Fast Fords that they can literally end up anywhere depending on who wants it . Looking at the Pictures it has the feel of being overdone especially with those Mud Flaps , anyone recognise the car ?
Contemplating a run over to Kings Lynn for this upcoming Auction and I have been watching the catalogue gradually expand with new entrants . Looking at this RS which to be fare isn't a concours example although its a pretty late one . Its not its best colour and you would need to get your figures right in order to take into account the cost of putting matters right . The trouble is with Fast Fords that they can literally end up anywhere depending on who wants it . Looking at the Pictures it has the feel of being overdone especially with those Mud Flaps , anyone recognise the car ?
aeropilot said:
It could be hiding a multitude of sins under that paint work, although, it looks all there, but I'd be wanting to go over that with a big magnet, and having a good look underneath it......
Not the best colour granted, although some people like it. It is a late one having a Jan 1980 build code.
I would think it will go for good money and then people find out that it needs another 20k spending on it......which is why its often better to start with a 12k project that clearly needs 30k chucking at it.
My thoughts entirelyNot the best colour granted, although some people like it. It is a late one having a Jan 1980 build code.
I would think it will go for good money and then people find out that it needs another 20k spending on it......which is why its often better to start with a 12k project that clearly needs 30k chucking at it.
gt40steve said:
I think that's the wing to nosecone joint.
Not too sure Steve , the thick coach line is cut (badly) either side of the joint and the thin one seems to just continue across it . It may be just an illusion though I don't think so . Its on the Picture with the bubbling paintworkRob 131 Sport said:
Undoubtedly the best thread of the year so far. You just can’t beat reminiscing about RS2000’s and its competitor, the arguably better Fiat Mirafiori Sport.
Who knows where it will lead and most likely on to the debate regarding whether the flat front was better looking. In my opinion the curved front with the 4 headlights just made the whole Escort thing.
I’ve also wondered whether the RS2000’s real competitor was within Ford’s own stable with the Capri 2.0S.
Its been a great Thread Rob with some great contributions , so much so that I remembered a long lost Fiat model car I owned in Alitalia livery . I spoke to the old man up in Glasgow last night who is now 86 and still motoring away in his Ford Fiesta . To be fare back in the Seventies and early Eighties he was a Dolomite Sprint Owner (NUS575M , JSG669T ) which surprisingly hasn't been mentioned as an RS alternative back then . Anyway the old man tells me the Model is still in its box in the Loft where its lay for over 40 years so I must get it out when I get back up there .Who knows where it will lead and most likely on to the debate regarding whether the flat front was better looking. In my opinion the curved front with the 4 headlights just made the whole Escort thing.
I’ve also wondered whether the RS2000’s real competitor was within Ford’s own stable with the Capri 2.0S.
I owned the 2.0 S and kept it only a few months . In my opinion it never handled anywhere near the capabilities of the Escort and I dumped it for an XR3 .
Glasgow was awash with flat front RS2000s and that was largely down to the fact that the running gear was so easy to recycle onto for example a 1.6 Sport
and if your RS2000 was stolen then this is where your car ended up .
Firenza Droopsnoot and the later Chevette HS I never even sat in and still haven't and that was largely down to the tremendous Brand Loyalty that existed at that time . My old man had come from Triumph Motorbikes hence the Dolomite Sprints
aeropilot said:
Badly.
That's a bit unfair, but the Dolly was a wobblly old Hector in comparison. It had the grunt and was quick in a straight line (when they worked) and the overdrive was useful for relaxed cruising but the seats were awful and lacked any side support.
You only bought a Sprint if you had to have 4 doors, and even then there were better options.
I have to tell you that across two Dolomite Sprints we had absolutely no engine troubles and I think the often repeated criticism regarding warped heads was a bit overdone at least when buying new . The first ones from memory all came in Mimosa Yellow which later from memory was dropped in favour of Inca Yellow ( I may have that wrong) . Front Wings were very susceptible to rot and the lacquer on the wheels peeled off before your eyes . My old man did all his own maintenance and I lay on the floor of our lock up on many winter nights doing various jobs .That's a bit unfair, but the Dolly was a wobblly old Hector in comparison. It had the grunt and was quick in a straight line (when they worked) and the overdrive was useful for relaxed cruising but the seats were awful and lacked any side support.
You only bought a Sprint if you had to have 4 doors, and even then there were better options.
Straight line against an RS2000 there was nothing in it but as you say it wasn't a great handler through the curves . Andy Rouse I seem to recall had some success with them in Saloon Racing .
As regards reasons for buying a Sprint I think you with respect talk complete nonsense . I would struggle to find a British Car in 1973 at a similar price point with that sort of Performance and I suspect you will too . Leyland had no competitor , Rootes ( Avenger Tiger , Hunter GLS )??? I don't either were as quick as a Sprint , 0/60 8.5 secs , 127bhp ?? . Vauxhall I believe would have struggled in period to match these figures also .
Ford however was the masterpiece . A marketing strategy based on Rally Success , plenty of money to set up a separate RS facility , and the cars were great too . Like many who grew up with RS Fords and had the good fortune to own some I just smile at the prices being achieved , how do you place a value on an icon ? Sadly many are now outside the financial capabilities of many of us and that's a great shame .
Rob 131 Sport said:
I never had any affection for the Dolomite as to me they were always an OAP special lacking any coolness when compared with a 3 Series, Fiat 131 or Escort RS2000.
The 3 series was two years later Rob and I suspect the Fiat was later too ? You are right about the Sprints lack of image especially as the years progressed but all British Leyland Products had a relatively poor image back then .It had a beautiful sound from the engine and in my humble opinion better than the Ford , a lovely revvy whine as you accelerated .
Not getting much support on here am I ?
aeropilot said:
My older cousin, was just such a buyer in 1976. He had to have 4 doors, and the Sprint seemed to tick all his boxes, so he went for a new Dolly Sprint in Tahiti Blue, on a new R plate in Aug. It spent about 3 months in total of its first 12 months in the dealership being fixed, or being attempted to be fixed. After 18 months he got so fed up with the thing, he part exchanged it for new Volvo 244 in 1978.
To this day, and he turned 70 last year, he still shivers, whenever I bring up the subject of the Sprint, which is still the worst car he's ever owned. In fairness, his gripe was as much with the inability of the dealers to actually sort out the problems, and usually 'fixed' the problem by creating a separate problem
The Volvo was slower and not as sporty, but it worked, didn't break down and was way more comfortable for the mileage he was doing at the time, and the dealers were excellent. He replaced the 244 with a new Opel Ascona Berlina SR 18 months later.
To be fair these sort of things happen with many cars and you no doubt agree with that . What I was really interested in was your assertion that there were better choices back then than the Dolomite Sprint and it was in order to promote more discussion over these supposed alternatives rather than pick any argument , that I replied to your Post .To this day, and he turned 70 last year, he still shivers, whenever I bring up the subject of the Sprint, which is still the worst car he's ever owned. In fairness, his gripe was as much with the inability of the dealers to actually sort out the problems, and usually 'fixed' the problem by creating a separate problem
The Volvo was slower and not as sporty, but it worked, didn't break down and was way more comfortable for the mileage he was doing at the time, and the dealers were excellent. He replaced the 244 with a new Opel Ascona Berlina SR 18 months later.
Back in 1973 at this price point from memory there wasn't that many alternatives and I think the Autocar article I posted supports this . I was really hoping someone was going to come up with something but probably not . The Avenger Tiger was older and slower , the droopsnoot Firenza likewise and more expensive , the 3 series hadn't yet arrived nor had the Fiat 131. and the Alfa I have to admit to knowing nothing about .
The Mk2 RS2000 I believe was also still to be introduced .
Its an interesting marketplace , small Sports Saloons in 1973
I’m getting the feeling you are a bit on the ropes with this assertion of yours . Firstly you make in my humble opinion a needless insertion of this difference between a 2 door Saloon and a 4 door saloon and complicate matters further by introducing a Manta Coupe which was a Capri Competitor and not even in this marketplace
The Manta incidentally as you say was a lovely handling machine and had a delicacy about its design which I really appreciate . It would never get down the road quicker than a Sprint nor an RS2000 though it did have some competition success in period . The RS1600 is an interesting car but was clearly well past its sell by date a fact which Ford would soon remedy .
Stood in McHarg Rennie and Lindsay , Castlebank Street Glasgow with the old man back in 1973 with the Sprint sat before us and the Magazine Articles all read it presented a compelling choice for a 30 year old Electrician . 13 years old I would later nudge him in the direction of the RS 2000 but he never wavered . 1979 came and the old fella bought another . 1990 came the first RS Ford bought new from Wyllies the Glasgow RS Dealership . I didn’t fancy the Acclaim he harrumphed to me out the back . Japanese s
t .
The Manta incidentally as you say was a lovely handling machine and had a delicacy about its design which I really appreciate . It would never get down the road quicker than a Sprint nor an RS2000 though it did have some competition success in period . The RS1600 is an interesting car but was clearly well past its sell by date a fact which Ford would soon remedy .
Stood in McHarg Rennie and Lindsay , Castlebank Street Glasgow with the old man back in 1973 with the Sprint sat before us and the Magazine Articles all read it presented a compelling choice for a 30 year old Electrician . 13 years old I would later nudge him in the direction of the RS 2000 but he never wavered . 1979 came and the old fella bought another . 1990 came the first RS Ford bought new from Wyllies the Glasgow RS Dealership . I didn’t fancy the Acclaim he harrumphed to me out the back . Japanese s
t .aeropilot said:
Seriously....!
That tells me all I need to know about your knowledge on the subject.
I am sorry you think that but let me try and explain myself better .That tells me all I need to know about your knowledge on the subject.
Edited by aeropilot on Sunday 14th January 12:33
It was a stunning machine and I haven't denied that though even its fiercest advocates would admit it was more of a "club sport " genre car than the RS2000 . I seem to remember the windscreen washers being operated from the floor such was its driver based focus . The point I am seeking to make is that the game was moving on Ford were as well and it was fast approaching the era of 16 valve heads and Fishnet Recaros . I accept there is a valid argument for saying the driving experience wasn't any better but equally I think there is an argument for saying that Drivers were becoming more sophisticated in their expectations .
Edited by reddiesel on Sunday 14th January 14:46
s m said:
Great thread to read and one I can relate to having owned or driven a lot of the cars mentioned on here. Sporty saloons are definitely my thing and certainly in the 80s, my friends and myself owned a fair old multitude of them. Fun to drive, cheap to fix/mod in most cases. Had a fair few Escorts, couple of Mk2 RS2000s ( not any of the rare colours though, a Venetian Red one and then a black one )
RS2000 was a popular car for my friends and me to own. Here’s a few of us at Motec Autotest in 1985 - one on the right was Midnight Blue ( with an aftermarket stripe added ) along with friend’s modded and very fast Lotus Sunbeam
My black one with another mate’s yellow one
Perspex headlight protectors on - razzing down the lanes in convoy, they saved the expensive ( but excellent ) headlights from stones kicked up by your mate in front clipping an apex or some gravel
Another friend had a Dolly Sprint, just to try something different
His was really reliable and never had head gasket issues ( although it may have been done in the 7/8 years before he had it maybe ). He certainly drove it hard as you’d expect teenage lads to
Certainly as quick as the RS2000s in a straight line but it was more like the Fiat 131 SuperMirafioris to us, bit more luxurious and heavier in the bends.
Remember seeing a 131 Stradale road car out following the rallies one year ( may have been the Audi Sport ) - that looked brilliant but pretty expensive and very rare. We had a quick word with the owner as we walked out of watching a stage and it sounded like it was great fun in the mould of an X-packed modded RS2.
Also had the E21 323i - they were so cheap to buy secondhand once the E30s arrived and the 6 made a great noise revved hard. Compared to the Escorts though, quite a heavy old thing so the extra 30bhp was kinda negated by the extra weight
This was a Hartge modded 4-speed
Then had a later 5-sp with the Recaros, sunroof - fitted a LSD so it was more fun like the 4-speeder
Some cars you just wanted to be better - never had the droopsnoot Firenza but another mate had a 2.3 flat front Firenza - was ok but just never felt fast as you thought it might with 110bhp.
The ones I would have liked to try were the Ascona 400 - rare but Lotus Sunbeam quick. I often wonder if it was Slippydiff’s one that left us straggling one evening on the back roads to Oswestry. The other one was the small 105 2000GTV Alfa - they seemed like a nice fun car and quite compact. Had a great drive back from the Welsh coast following one in my RS2000.
Tried my mate’s 1300GT Junior a while before and it was nice to drive albeit no faster than my Escort 1300 Mk1 - I think 2-litre power would have been great in one though
Oh and honourable mention to the Lancer 2000 Turbo - first one of these I saw was a girl at work’s one. She was same age as us but she could drive the wheels off it and was a real, if very glam, petrolhead. Made the 323i look like it had the handbrake on
They came up for sale so infrequently but I would definitely have liked one
Lovely to see the aftermarket exhaust on the Sprint and the enthusiastic driving on Country Roads . Great memories for you .RS2000 was a popular car for my friends and me to own. Here’s a few of us at Motec Autotest in 1985 - one on the right was Midnight Blue ( with an aftermarket stripe added ) along with friend’s modded and very fast Lotus Sunbeam
My black one with another mate’s yellow one
Perspex headlight protectors on - razzing down the lanes in convoy, they saved the expensive ( but excellent ) headlights from stones kicked up by your mate in front clipping an apex or some gravel
Another friend had a Dolly Sprint, just to try something different
His was really reliable and never had head gasket issues ( although it may have been done in the 7/8 years before he had it maybe ). He certainly drove it hard as you’d expect teenage lads to
Certainly as quick as the RS2000s in a straight line but it was more like the Fiat 131 SuperMirafioris to us, bit more luxurious and heavier in the bends.
Remember seeing a 131 Stradale road car out following the rallies one year ( may have been the Audi Sport ) - that looked brilliant but pretty expensive and very rare. We had a quick word with the owner as we walked out of watching a stage and it sounded like it was great fun in the mould of an X-packed modded RS2.
Also had the E21 323i - they were so cheap to buy secondhand once the E30s arrived and the 6 made a great noise revved hard. Compared to the Escorts though, quite a heavy old thing so the extra 30bhp was kinda negated by the extra weight
This was a Hartge modded 4-speed
Then had a later 5-sp with the Recaros, sunroof - fitted a LSD so it was more fun like the 4-speeder
Some cars you just wanted to be better - never had the droopsnoot Firenza but another mate had a 2.3 flat front Firenza - was ok but just never felt fast as you thought it might with 110bhp.
The ones I would have liked to try were the Ascona 400 - rare but Lotus Sunbeam quick. I often wonder if it was Slippydiff’s one that left us straggling one evening on the back roads to Oswestry. The other one was the small 105 2000GTV Alfa - they seemed like a nice fun car and quite compact. Had a great drive back from the Welsh coast following one in my RS2000.
Tried my mate’s 1300GT Junior a while before and it was nice to drive albeit no faster than my Escort 1300 Mk1 - I think 2-litre power would have been great in one though
Oh and honourable mention to the Lancer 2000 Turbo - first one of these I saw was a girl at work’s one. She was same age as us but she could drive the wheels off it and was a real, if very glam, petrolhead. Made the 323i look like it had the handbrake on
They came up for sale so infrequently but I would definitely have liked one
Edited by s m on Sunday 14th January 14:13
I-am-the-reverend said:
The 1970 RS1600 was probably the first production 4 cyl 16v road car, well before the Dolly Sprint and Jensen Healey. They were pretty crude in detail - the same as a base Escort 1100 - but were cars built for a purpose.
"Probably".......you aren't sure then ? https://angliacarauctions.co.uk/classic-auctions/2...
Some more information coming to light about the Car that started this thread
Some more information coming to light about the Car that started this thread
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