Israel invaded
Discussion
Countdown said:
SweptVolume said:
I understand why people want to see a ceasefire, really I do, but what will be the inevitable result of one? At some point, Hamas, or one of the other extremist Palestinian groups, will break the ceasefire, either with a barrage of relatively ineffectual rockets, or with another highly effective incursion into Israel for some more raping and pillaging.
Then, presumably, Israel retaliate by bombing the Gaza strip and the cycle continues.
Both sides need to change up their governments for ones more conciliatory to the position of the other side and maybe a peace deal can be rekindled. Until then, they'll just keep going at each other and lots more people suffer. A ceasefire tomorrow won't change that.
What more would you expect the Palestinian Authority to do? They’ve done pretty much everything that Israel has told them to do and got nowhere. All that’s happened is that Settlements have increased and Palestinians have been killed. At the moment that seems to be the only option for Palestinians- do nothing and be killed or fight back like Hamas and be killed.Then, presumably, Israel retaliate by bombing the Gaza strip and the cycle continues.
Both sides need to change up their governments for ones more conciliatory to the position of the other side and maybe a peace deal can be rekindled. Until then, they'll just keep going at each other and lots more people suffer. A ceasefire tomorrow won't change that.
Edited by SweptVolume on Tuesday 21st November 21:58
Maybe if the international community held Israel to account for once that might make some progress? Everybody agrees that settlements are illegal and everyone can see that they prevent the Palestinians from having their own country. But no Western country seems to want to point out the obvious.
Edited by Countdown on Tuesday 21st November 22:30
Ridgemont said:
911hope said:
don'tbesilly said:
911hope said:
Worse case scenario is that the Israeli's intend to exterminate or expell all Palestinians from Gaza.
Do the war enthusiasts on here, endorse that course of action?
The problem you have is that scenario isn’t one the Israeli’s would endorse, so asking “the war enthusiasts” on here whether it’s a course of action they would endorse is a futile exercise, and I’m surprised anyone would come up with such a scenario in the first place and go on to ask such a question.Do the war enthusiasts on here, endorse that course of action?
It is easy to say no, if you are a decent person.
Does avoiding saying no tell us what you really think?
No one is suggesting (least of all the Israelis as far as I can see, bar the usual nut jobs) a wholesale expulsion of Gaza. Let alone ‘extermination’. The reason no one is biting is because it appears utterly counterintuitive. And yes it would not be a good outcome.
Wibbling on about the fact no one is responding to a bizarre point does not prove that the hypothetical is somehow agreed with from those in this side of the aisle. It’s more of a ‘er…. Don’t know how to respond to bats
t crazy claims’ awkward silence. Like your mad uncle farting continuously at a family get together: let’s ignore it and hope the bad smell goes away…911hope said:
Countdown said:
It might seem like that because the majority of posts are "justifying" Israel's actions.
I think Hamas killing 1200+ Israelis was abhorrent. I think Israel killing 12,000+ Palestinians is no less abhorrent.
You have forgotten starving 2 million people after making them homeless.I think Hamas killing 1200+ Israelis was abhorrent. I think Israel killing 12,000+ Palestinians is no less abhorrent.
911hope said:
Polly Grigora said:
Will you kindly explain what you mean by hamasy posters
It is a term that has been invented to describe anyone who criticised Israel's response to the atrocity committed by Hamas.The people who use seem to think that this is equivalent to supporting Hamas. Obviously there is no reasoning process involved, just instinctive identification of their "debating" does, and some I'll thought out labelling.
They are blind to the scale actions of Israel, which has now committed its own atrocity which is an order of magnitude greater than that of Hamas.
The collective punishment of Gazans will probably result in a vast increase of the death count. People who point this out get categorised as Hamasy, without a moment's thought.
Any comments that consider the decades of brutality waged against Palestinians, contributing to the current war are also judged to mean supporting Hamas.
In spite of all this, the people who use the term would fail to find a single post, where someone actually express support for Hamas.
Sadly, they are unlikely to become more thoughtful.
So what would you want to happen now. Israel could withdraw then what?
911hope said:
I think the word you are grasping for is "equate"
Seems buddy you have been caught out. Ridge and IRC have been here for years you and polly seem to be new.....odd you would choose PH to debate. Every 6 months or so someone like you pops up....is it because they are all you
Solocle said:
markiii said:
10 a day just means they get to drag it out whilst rebuilding for best part of a year
doesn't really help anyone. amazed Israel agreed to it
A month, not a year.doesn't really help anyone. amazed Israel agreed to it
Polly Grigora said:
biggbn said:
I have read this thread with disbelief, no small amount of horror and a huge amount of pity. It demonstrates the exact problem it discusses. People feel a need to take a side and make an assumption that their behaviour must be exclusively binary thereafter. Minds, umbrellas and parachutes. All only work when they are open. Sad, sad times.
You will find that the problem here is with those that attempt to justify the mass murders carried out by the IDF bombing GAZANobody here has given any support whatsoever in favour of HAMAS and the atrocities committed by them last month in Israel
End of day blaming the bombing and deaths on the IDF air brushes the cause of this violence
Slowboathome said:
isaldiri said:
Well, yes of course the conquered should just meekly accept whatever fate they can scrounge from the beneficence of their conquerors and never ever think of resisting.....
If only there was some way of resisting that didn't involve rape, murdering people at a peace festival and beheading babies.Also it can't be that bad have a look at the Instagram of one of Hamas leadership daughter she seemed to be living well in such a prison
P. ONeill said:
Horrific if true. IF.
Shortly after the attacks medical staff who recover bodies both Israelis and Palestinians reported the horrors they saw on live TV to the world's media I asked at the time if they were lying no one said they were. Are you saying they were not telling the truth.The live footage of the Israeli women being put into a jeep bleeding from the groin was that a lie.
The dead body of the Israeli women half naked with limbs bent the wrong way was that a lie.
You saying "If" turns my stomach. This does not mean Israelis have not done bad things but it also doesn't absolve the crimes of hamas.
P. ONeill said:
Gecko1978 said:
P. ONeill said:
Horrific if true. IF.
Shortly after the attacks medical staff who recover bodies both Israelis and Palestinians reported the horrors they saw on live TV to the world's media I asked at the time if they were lying no one said they were. Are you saying they were not telling the truth.The live footage of the Israeli women being put into a jeep bleeding from the groin was that a lie.
The dead body of the Israeli women half naked with limbs bent the wrong way was that a lie.
You saying "If" turns my stomach. This does not mean Israelis have not done bad things but it also doesn't absolve the crimes of hamas.
I have said this before and no doubt I’ll say it again but the first casualty in any war is the truth and never was that truer than today. I’m not going to go all round the houses here with you, you have your position and I have mine.
The slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians turns my stomach, but you seem to be fine with what any right minded person could only class as genocide.
Mr Flashman sums up the while thing perfectly, there are no winners.
Do you honestly think that the above images could by described as self defence on the part of Israel? Only a fool would believe that this started on October seventh. This has been ongoing since 1948. This is Nakba 2.0.
Here is thing thing though. If somewhere deep in a hamas bunkers someone planning the events on the 7th didn't expect this to happen then really they are deluded. You hide your military under people's homes what did you expect to happen. You attack a people you claim hate you, what did you expect to happen. You laugh an joke about killing civilians on the phoen to your family what did you expect to happen. You tell the media the 7th is just the start what did you expect go happen.
What is happening is not right it's not unexpected
911hope said:
What happened to the command and control centre under the al Shifa hospital. Strange that iDF have not been shouting about this. After all,
it was the justification for putting it out of action.
Without such a justification, attacking a hospital would be a war crime.
There were media shows of what they found. Not exactly GCHQ but still military tunnels and weaponsit was the justification for putting it out of action.
Without such a justification, attacking a hospital would be a war crime.
P. ONeill said:
andymadmak said:
P. ONeill said:
You said an 8 year old girl. Either you are incredibly naive and believe everything you see on whatever news outlet you use or you are a liar. I’m going to hedge my bets and say it’s a bit of both.
Maybe this 8 year old girl, with her missing arm hid the bodies of the 40 decapitated babies before she bled out. Remember those 40 babies? They didn’t exist either.
You are a disgrace to humanity. Maybe this 8 year old girl, with her missing arm hid the bodies of the 40 decapitated babies before she bled out. Remember those 40 babies? They didn’t exist either.
Square Leg said:
Given in first paragraph she claims the IDF killed thier own people I am going to file this in the anti semitic folder and disregard it.Alpinestars said:
Cognitive dissonance or silencing tactics. Why don’t all you that are outraged at P. ONeill’s post actually address the points you disagree with rather than shouting Jew hater?
Because as others have said their blinkered view is no longer with debating they are a disgrace.For clarity Israel have done some very bad things. An when they come to light should be held accountable.
Hamas committed atrocities on the 7th and as a direct result Gaza is being destroyed.
Countdown said:
Gecko1978 said:
Given in first paragraph she claims the IDF killed thier own people I am going to file this in the anti semitic folder and disregard it.
Given how confused things were why do you think it's impossible for the IDF to have killed some Israelis during the rescue attempt?Countdown said:
Gecko1978 said:
Because as others have said their blinkered view is no longer with debating they are a disgrace.
For clarity Israel have done some very bad things. An when they come to light should be held accountable.
Hamas committed atrocities on the 7th and as a direct result Gaza is being destroyed.
Hamas definitely committed atrocities on 7/10. Destroying Gaza and killing thousands is not a proportionate response. For clarity Israel have done some very bad things. An when they come to light should be held accountable.
Hamas committed atrocities on the 7th and as a direct result Gaza is being destroyed.
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