“National Conservatism”

Interesting thread. Funny how the defenders of "National Conservatism" seem to think that the only important thing is name calling and the shutting down of debate. As ever, calling a duck a duck isn't name calling and no debate has been shut down. Does anyone have anything positive to say in support of the National Conservative policies or is it all divert and deflect?

Don't quite agree with all of it, but that's a very decent speech, not the only one from this event either.

Good post. Raises an interesting question: why are the LibDems not benefitting more? The polls show some improvement in national support, but not huge.

I’d be interested in Condi’s and others’ views why not, as their failure to capitalise seems to me to be one factor facilitating the Conservatives move to the right.

The main thing people remember lib dems for, if at all, is screwing people on tuition fees.

Not a great legacy.

They'll have to, their party will die out along with its voter base otherwise.

NatC's

Good post, which I can echo a lot. I am definitely a lefty now in my mid-30s but my background and initial political views were surefire moderate Conservative. And one thing that has been a consistent factor in my adult life (and which has been a steady push-factor for me away from the Conservatives and conservatism) is that the Conservatives have done nothing but place obstacles in my way. They have done nothing to facilitate or reward my goals in life and have been either entirely uninterested in them or have actively worked against them. And they have nearly always actively antagonised my social values.

I will offer a challenge to the bit in bold though:







The Tory membership is not uniformly more right-wing than the parliamentary party - it is significantly to the left economically and moderately to the right socially (significantly in some core issues).

Worth mentioning that Labour voters and MPs are in almost perfect lock-step economically, but Labour voters (in aggregate) align almost perfectly with the Tory MP social alignment.

(I acknowledge that these surveys were done in 2019 - it would be interesting to re-do them to see how those variances and alignments have changed now that both main parties are somewhat different and have actively tried to rid themselves of certain voter bases from 2019).

In general, the electorate is more socially conservative (and much more socially authoritarian) than the political class, and much more economically progressive.

This shouldn't really be a surprise - anyone who has the vaguest sense of the pulse of the Average British Voter knows there's a big constituency out there for "tax the rich, stiff the bankers, nationalise the water, pay the nurses, deport the asylum seekers, keep The Gay out of schools, ban Halal and bring back the death penalty!"

This is why I am interested in the creation of this National Conservatism (in the way that, as a kid, you might be simultaneously repulsed and fascinated by a maggot-infested badger corpse you find in the woods...) because it is a right-wing attempt to break the neoliberal orthodoxy which is failing around us and square that circle - strong government intervention and investment in national infrastructure, radical reforms of services, stoking of free enterprise and 'robust' nationalism and social conservatism.

Well that's common law, magna carta, parliament, the civil war and the bill of rights all for nought then.

Yes, modern democracy took shape after the union, and I am proud to inherit that tradition too. They're not in opposition.

Hancock is likely one of the worst senior politicians in critical role we have ever had in a time of crisis. He is also arguing for an essentially pointless strategy. Pointless because Conservatives becoming Labour in order to be elected rather defeats the purpose. You might as well elect Labour and have a party beholden to different vested interests instead. If there is indeed a permanent shift in attitudes then the role of the Conservatives would be better as offering an effective opposition and continue to argue the case for conservative solutions.

I also don't actually think there has been a permanent shift either. We are seeing the failure of an entire governing agenda and the Conservatives have been in office while this culminated. If Labour also provide no solutions then the voters will be open to
alternatives.

Yeah, I’m confused as to how the magna carta and spanish civil war relate to democracy tbh.