Iran - Israel War
Discussion
Blackpuddin said:
Yep it's incredibly frustrating to see this playing out, like probably every global conflict it feels like it all started bloody centuries ago when somebody said something wrong to somebody else.
From a western viewpoint it's entirely illogical.But unfortunately, for as long as warped Imam's in madrassas across the MENA region continue to indoctrinate and poison innocent minds, nothing will change.
s1962a said:
Iran says it will respond to any attack with severe force. Considering all their toy drones were shot down, what exactly are they going to retaliate with thats going to have the allies worried?
Wild speculation here but they do have friends in the far east who seem to manufacture a large line of artillery, rockets and ICBMs. IIRC North Korea did (and maybe still does) provide technical assistance to Iran. It wouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason to suggest that they also supply Iran.RustyMX5 said:
s1962a said:
Iran says it will respond to any attack with severe force. Considering all their toy drones were shot down, what exactly are they going to retaliate with thats going to have the allies worried?
Wild speculation here but they do have friends in the far east who seem to manufacture a large line of artillery, rockets and ICBMs. IIRC North Korea did (and maybe still does) provide technical assistance to Iran. It wouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason to suggest that they also supply Iran.ukwill said:
I mean seriously, what's the point of pretending there are political solutions to the ME conflict?
I don't honestly know if there's a solution for the whole of the ME but an obvious start would be a two state solution for the Palestinians and Israeli's.There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
JJJ. said:
I don't honestly know if there's a solution for the whole of the ME but an obvious start would be a two state solution for the Palestinians and Israeli's.
There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
Neither side have shown any real interest in a two state solution.There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
ukwill said:
From a western viewpoint it's entirely illogical.
But unfortunately, for as long as warped Imam's in madrassas across the MENA region continue to indoctrinate and poison innocent minds, nothing will change.
Unlike Israel - which has absolutely no religious nutters with a strong influence over those in power......But unfortunately, for as long as warped Imam's in madrassas across the MENA region continue to indoctrinate and poison innocent minds, nothing will change.
Mr Penguin said:
JJJ. said:
I don't honestly know if there's a solution for the whole of the ME but an obvious start would be a two state solution for the Palestinians and Israeli's.
There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
Neither side have shown any real interest in a two state solution.There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
vaud said:
s1962a said:
Considering all their toy drones were shot down, what exactly are they going to retaliate with thats going to have the allies worried?
All the ones launched were shot down. Do we know how big their stockpiles are?JJJ. said:
I don't honestly know if there's a solution for the whole of the ME but an obvious start would be a two state solution for the Palestinians and Israeli's.
There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
That would be great.There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
But the reality would be that any faction that had no intention of agreeing to a 2-state solution would continue to carry out attacks.
And any nefarious state actor(s) in the region who had interests in maintaining the instability would continue, with the covert backing of other nefarious state actors who saw the benefit of keeping the US embroiled in the mess.
JJJ. said:
I don't honestly know if there's a solution for the whole of the ME but an obvious start would be a two state solution for the Palestinians and Israeli's.
There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
Spot onThere's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
paulrockliffe said:
There's nothing diplomatic about what got hit in Syria, it was the Syrian head quarters of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps, a terrorist organisation that sits in Syrian organising terrorist activity across the Middle East. It would not have diplomatic status in any normal country. The people that died there were terrorists, including those that were involved in pulling the Hamas strings on October the 7th.
If the US had flattened it when the people that use it attacked and killed US service personnel in Syria no one would have batted an eye lid, yet here we are hearing about how awful it was that Israel killed some terrorists in Syria. Why is that?
One man’s terrorist, etc. You don’t think for one moment that the USA, the Israelis, and indeed the British haven’t had units like this one in places around the world stirring up trouble when it suits them/us? If Russia had found a site full of CIA people directing the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, and hit it with an airstrike, would you have been as happy to describe the CIA as terrorists? Of course not. Every country engages in this sort of stuff when it is in their interests to do so, including Israel.If the US had flattened it when the people that use it attacked and killed US service personnel in Syria no one would have batted an eye lid, yet here we are hearing about how awful it was that Israel killed some terrorists in Syria. Why is that?
That doesn’t mean I defend them for doing so. But to pick out the Iranians and brand them “terrorists” when I very much doubt you’d call a British unit doing the same work by the same name is just hypocrisy.
ukwill said:
JJJ. said:
I don't honestly know if there's a solution for the whole of the ME but an obvious start would be a two state solution for the Palestinians and Israeli's.
There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
That would be great.There's probably no magic wand just one step at a time. And it's now time for Israel to take the leading step, no question.
But the reality would be that any faction that had no intention of agreeing to a 2-state solution would continue to carry out attacks.
And any nefarious state actor(s) in the region who had interests in maintaining the instability would continue, with the covert backing of other nefarious state actors who saw the benefit of keeping the US embroiled in the mess.
What other options are there...bad actors or not.
skwdenyer said:
s1962a said:
Iran says it will respond to any attack with severe force. Considering all their toy drones were shot down, what exactly are they going to retaliate with thats going to have the allies worried?
Their hypersonic missiles might be an issue, if they work.https://defence-industry.eu/irans-fattah-hypersoni...
I didn't realise Iran had such advanced weapons - if they work, like you said.
JJJ. said:
Yes, you have point but it's not a reason not to go down the path of a two state solution if that's what the majority of Palestinians and Israeli's agree to.
What other options are there...bad actors or not.
A majority of Palestinians do not want a two state solution https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-l...What other options are there...bad actors or not.
Neither do Israeli Jews https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palesti...
Mr Penguin said:
JJJ. said:
Yes, you have point but it's not a reason not to go down the path of a two state solution if that's what the majority of Palestinians and Israeli's agree to.
What other options are there...bad actors or not.
A majority of Palestinians do not want a two state solution https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-l...What other options are there...bad actors or not.
Neither do Israeli Jews https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palesti...
Not too long ago the Palestinians were in favour of a two state solution and many still are, no reason to suspect with proper elected leadership their views could easily change. Palestinian views are fluid, which can only be viewed as a positive.
As for the Israeli's, well no surprise there as we all know. But again, it's down to leadership and facing reality and taking responsibility.
So, a two state solution is an option, it's really about Israel taking the lead.
With the full support and pressure from the international community, not just the US it's surprising what can happen.
Any reasonable or enlightening suggestions from yourself?
Mr Penguin said:
JJJ. said:
Yes, you have point but it's not a reason not to go down the path of a two state solution if that's what the majority of Palestinians and Israeli's agree to.
What other options are there...bad actors or not.
A majority of Palestinians do not want a two state solution https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-l...What other options are there...bad actors or not.
Neither do Israeli Jews https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palesti...
That second link is useless. It is proof that Netanyahu’s gambit has worked; that if you ensure Hamas is the bogeyman, you turn opinion against peace. It asks people in the immediate aftermath of a violent incursion whether they want vengeance or not. There aren’t enough “bigger people” to acknowledge that, yes, that’s exactly the solution that’s needed. But it in no way proves that, in the general case, Israeli Jews don’t want peace.
As for the Palestinian poll, I’d be very interested how the fieldwork was done, and how it accounted for the social and religious pressure felt by everyday Gazans. But broadly I’m once again unsurprised; it is *precisely* the result Netanyahu has been working towards for years.
That so many can’t acknowledge that this is a manufactured situation is quite chilling.
JJJ. said:
Yes, you have point but it's not a reason not to go down the path of a two state solution if that's what the majority of Palestinians and Israeli's agree to.
What other options are there...bad actors or not.
A one state solution ?What other options are there...bad actors or not.
Treat everyone as an equal - a bit radical I know..... give every within the Israel border citizenship
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