“National Conservatism”
Discussion
There is a saying "too much of one thing is bad for you".
The kind of pride that Nationalists want to encourage in people is toxic. It's an often unearned pride; an exagerated pride, an empty, false pride. The kind of pride that fills people with a sense of achievement that they did nothing to earn. The kind of pride that convinces you that you're special and superior simply because you were born in the nation you were.
It's the kind of pride thats intoxicating. That can lead to otherwise good folk accepting, condoning and advocating for evil things; because they are being done upon those that deserve it for being inferior, lesser.
Nationalism is simply a psychological trick; to manipulate people into following an agenda.
The kind of pride that Nationalists want to encourage in people is toxic. It's an often unearned pride; an exagerated pride, an empty, false pride. The kind of pride that fills people with a sense of achievement that they did nothing to earn. The kind of pride that convinces you that you're special and superior simply because you were born in the nation you were.
It's the kind of pride thats intoxicating. That can lead to otherwise good folk accepting, condoning and advocating for evil things; because they are being done upon those that deserve it for being inferior, lesser.
Nationalism is simply a psychological trick; to manipulate people into following an agenda.
s2art said:
Seriously? Its special because its home. Where most of your friends and relatives are. Where you are most comfortable with the culture around you. (Football, cricket, rugby, curry, fish and chips, pubs etc etc etc)
Honestly, there is nothing special about any of those. Patriotism is usually associated with a sense of pride, and why should I be proud of fish & f
king chips?I want to be proud of my country. But I want to be proud of its values - tolerance, diversity, equality, fairness, and yes, if I'm forced, a certain sense of a stiff upper lip. But more than that, why should I feel pride over something I have no influence over and is literally an accident of birth?
Furthermore there is the flip side of the coin. If Patriotism is "my country is great", Nationalism is its ugly twin: "your country is bad". And I will have no truck with the latter.
s2art said:
ZedLeg said:
Patriotism and nationalism are stupid, the idea that the bit of land you were born on is special is tribalism at it's most basic.
Seriously? Its special because its home. Where most of your friends and relatives are. Where you are most comfortable with the culture around you. (Football, cricket, rugby, curry, fish and chips, pubs etc etc etc)A lot of the outrage about these sort of things seems to come from an odd conviction that the relatively narrow and particular views that are represented by the TV news and traditional papers are somehow the mainstream that everyone buys into barring a few extremists at the margins.
In my experience those views are a lot less dominant than they appear.
In my experience those views are a lot less dominant than they appear.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
A lot of the outrage about these sort of things seems to come from an odd conviction that the relatively narrow and particular views that are represented by the TV news and traditional papers are somehow the mainstream that everyone buys into barring a few extremists at the margins.
In my experience those views are a lot less dominant than they appear.
They're the views of idiots though, which say next to nothing about the problems that the country is facing. There's nothing positive in their views, just a series of scapegoats / bogeymen for real or perceived wrongs. The whole thing is a bandwagon for failed UK populists, funded by the lunatic fringe in the US.In my experience those views are a lot less dominant than they appear.
If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can f
k off to the USA if they want that style of politics otolith said:
Sort of missing the point - that's another description of the history of some ideas which are labelled "Cultural Marxism".
I think this is more what 2Chevrons was getting at;
https://antisemitism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/202...
They're actually labelled "cultural Marxism". Note the small "c". This is the academic use of the phrase, rather than the dog whistle version. I think this is more what 2Chevrons was getting at;
https://antisemitism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/202...
Vanden Saab said:
s2art said:
ZedLeg said:
Patriotism and nationalism are stupid, the idea that the bit of land you were born on is special is tribalism at it's most basic.
Seriously? Its special because its home. Where most of your friends and relatives are. Where you are most comfortable with the culture around you. (Football, cricket, rugby, curry, fish and chips, pubs etc etc etc)
JuanCarlosFandango said:
A lot of the outrage about these sort of things seems to come from an odd conviction that the relatively narrow and particular views that are represented by the TV news and traditional papers are somehow the mainstream that everyone buys into barring a few extremists at the margins.
In my experience those views are a lot less dominant than they appear.
Yup, in the main it’s hysterical bullshine whipped up in S.M. as examples in here. In my experience those views are a lot less dominant than they appear.
smn159 said:
They're the views of idiots though, which say next to nothing about the problems that the country is facing. There's nothing positive in their views, just a series of scapegoats / bogeymen for real or perceived wrongs. The whole thing is a bandwagon for failed UK populists, funded by the lunatic fringe in the US.
If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can fk off to the USA if they want that style of politics
In your view. There's 67+ million people in the UK and they don't all have the same views as you. If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can f
k off to the USA if they want that style of politics If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
smn159 said:
They're the views of idiots though, which say next to nothing about the problems that the country is facing. There's nothing positive in their views, just a series of scapegoats / bogeymen for real or perceived wrongs. The whole thing is a bandwagon for failed UK populists, funded by the lunatic fringe in the US.
If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can fk off to the USA if they want that style of politics
In your view. There's 67+ million people in the UK and they don't all have the same views as you. If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can f
k off to the USA if they want that style of politics If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
With reference to population size, on what measure do you mean "sustainable"? What is the correct level of immigration (this could be positive, negative or zero) required to achieve your measure of sustainability, and please provide costed evidence for you position.
Bannock said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
smn159 said:
They're the views of idiots though, which say next to nothing about the problems that the country is facing. There's nothing positive in their views, just a series of scapegoats / bogeymen for real or perceived wrongs. The whole thing is a bandwagon for failed UK populists, funded by the lunatic fringe in the US.
If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can fk off to the USA if they want that style of politics
In your view. There's 67+ million people in the UK and they don't all have the same views as you. If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can f
k off to the USA if they want that style of politics If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
With reference to population size, on what measure do you mean "sustainable"? What is the correct level of immigration (this could be positive, negative or zero) required to achieve your measure of sustainability, and please provide costed evidence for you position.
Bannock said:
What are your favourite aspects of British culture? Name 3. Also, please describe how they are under threat.
With reference to population size, on what measure do you mean "sustainable"? What is the correct level of immigration (this could be positive, negative or zero) required to achieve your measure of sustainability, and please provide costed evidence for you position.
Are you setting an exam question? Why the combatative tone?With reference to population size, on what measure do you mean "sustainable"? What is the correct level of immigration (this could be positive, negative or zero) required to achieve your measure of sustainability, and please provide costed evidence for you position.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Bannock said:
What are your favourite aspects of British culture? Name 3. Also, please describe how they are under threat.
With reference to population size, on what measure do you mean "sustainable"? What is the correct level of immigration (this could be positive, negative or zero) required to achieve your measure of sustainability, and please provide costed evidence for you position.
Are you setting an exam question? Why the combatative tone?With reference to population size, on what measure do you mean "sustainable"? What is the correct level of immigration (this could be positive, negative or zero) required to achieve your measure of sustainability, and please provide costed evidence for you position.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
In your view. There's 67+ million people in the UK and they don't all have the same views as you.
If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
I don't think anyone is saying that.If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
'sustainable population' and 'culture' are carefully used by the kind of people who were at this conference.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
smn159 said:
They're the views of idiots though, which say next to nothing about the problems that the country is facing. There's nothing positive in their views, just a series of scapegoats / bogeymen for real or perceived wrongs. The whole thing is a bandwagon for failed UK populists, funded by the lunatic fringe in the US.
If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can fk off to the USA if they want that style of politics
In your view. There's 67+ million people in the UK and they don't all have the same views as you. If you're riled up by them that's great. My view is that they can f
k off to the USA if they want that style of politics If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
Sounds like communist China to me - no thanks
JuanCarlosFandango said:
If you think the whole idea of having a sustainable population and some sort of culture is just populist mush for idiots then I'd say you have a very narrow and blinkered view yourself.
Just to be clear on this. This is the kind of culture that is being pushed here - direct quotes from https://www.theamericanconservative.com/national-c...National Conservatism said:
Restoring a proper public orientation toward <...> religion and wisdom, congregation and family, man and woman, the sabbath and the sacred...
National Conservatism said:
However, in those states or subdivisions <...> in which lawlessness, immorality, and dissolution reign, national government must intervene energetically to restore order.
National Conservatism said:
the Bible has been our surest guide, nourishing a fitting orientation toward God <...> The Bible should be read as the first among the sources of a shared Western civilization in schools and universities
National Conservatism said:
We recognize that most universities are at this point partisan and globalist in orientation and vehemently opposed to nationalist and conservative ideas. Such institutions do not deserve taxpayer support unless they rededicate themselves to the national interest.
National Conservatism said:
The traditional family, built around a lifelong bond between a man and a woman <...> is the foundation of all other achievements of our civilization.
National Conservatism said:
We call for much more restrictive (immigration) policies <...> Restrictive policies may sometimes include a moratorium on immigration.
I could go on. But you get the flavour. When you get down to it, it's simply good ol' American bible-thumping, gay-bashing, anti-education, and immigrant-hating wearing a new frock.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff