Infected Blood Scandal
Discussion
119 said:
Ken Clark misled the public over this at the time but now at 83 doesn’t seem much point but I believe should certainly be held accountable somehow.
Part of the problem IMO.Nobody should be untouchable, no matter how old or senior they might be. If they are guilty, then they should be exposed and punished. Even if they're dead - name them.
These cross-generation, multiple govt issues (bloods, post office etc) bring Sir Humphrey to mind. Fertile imagination perhaps, but you can just imagine senior Civil Servants welcoming the incoming govt and advising them on s
t that needs to be kept where it is.The whole lot stinks.
119 said:
Randy Winkman said:
119 said:
A bit surprised there isnt a thread on this already.
Yes - what it needed was a TV drama. That's not a dig at PHers though - after all, I could have started one. It's more about the more general low profile the subject has had. I have been wondering if it's an even bigger deal than the Post Office. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Hospital_...
Edited to add link....
Edited by bodhi on Tuesday 21st May 01:05
I've been conscious of it since the 90s but for whatever reason govts chose to evade it and without a public enquiry victims were isolated and probably many thought they were alone. The vilest aspect to me is the school where they specialised in teaching haemophiliac kids and the kids were used as guinea pigs, it's like something from Dr Mengele. Never mind consent, what about their hippocratic oath?
I have a chap working for me who got Hepatitis C from infected blood in the 1980s (he has haemophilia). His uncle died of AIDS so I guess he was lucky in some ways.
He can't get life insurance and has a life blighted by a government cover up. The sad thing is that only survivors get paid compensation, and hundreds are dying each year. The government will continue to string it out as long as possible.
He can't get life insurance and has a life blighted by a government cover up. The sad thing is that only survivors get paid compensation, and hundreds are dying each year. The government will continue to string it out as long as possible.
Murph7355 said:
Part of the problem IMO.
Nobody should be untouchable, no matter how old or senior they might be. If they are guilty, then they should be exposed and punished. Even if they're dead - name them.
This.Nobody should be untouchable, no matter how old or senior they might be. If they are guilty, then they should be exposed and punished. Even if they're dead - name them.
Not sure what bearing the whole "he's an old man" should have on this and by most accounts his conduct at the inquiry itself was disgraceful.
At the very least there's a peerage that could and arguably should be returned or removed.
TUS373 said:
I have been following this...for 30 years. I worked for the company that brought in the first generation of blood products that had viral inactivation in them. Whilst it no doubt saved lives, a lot of damage was already done.
The scale of this is genuinely massive and I will read the report with interest and sadness no doubt.
One of the key problems with blood products was that the process that concentrates proteins such as FVIII and FIX also concentrated viruses when they were present. Ways around that were better screening of blood (plasma) donors, but that came too late...after the viruses were discovered. And inactivation. HIV and HCV are lipid enveloped and susceptible to being destroyed by solvents, so once this brought on, safety improved massively. Some such blood products are still in use today. They are life saving. In other cases, patients receive recombinant products...so not made from blood per se.
Some of these patients became friends and some still survive, but not in the best if health.
It was heartening to see Sunak and Starmer sharing the platform in the Commons today and relaying the same sentiment.
Lessons will be learned from this. At last.
Will it though? NHS closed ranks and covered up again, how many times has that happened and continues toThe scale of this is genuinely massive and I will read the report with interest and sadness no doubt.
One of the key problems with blood products was that the process that concentrates proteins such as FVIII and FIX also concentrated viruses when they were present. Ways around that were better screening of blood (plasma) donors, but that came too late...after the viruses were discovered. And inactivation. HIV and HCV are lipid enveloped and susceptible to being destroyed by solvents, so once this brought on, safety improved massively. Some such blood products are still in use today. They are life saving. In other cases, patients receive recombinant products...so not made from blood per se.
Some of these patients became friends and some still survive, but not in the best if health.
It was heartening to see Sunak and Starmer sharing the platform in the Commons today and relaying the same sentiment.
Lessons will be learned from this. At last.
Infected with HIV at a time people were stigmatised, claims it was 'the gay virus', was it about 1986 when the aids kills adverts started?
MattsCar said:
Just watch the tardiness when it comes to paying out...apparently 70% involved have died already...wait a few more years and save x amount of money. Disgusting.
Same as the PO Scandal anddelayed WASPI women etc.
FTFYSame as the PO Scandal and
How you can even compare a group of women whose ignorance/inaction "may" have cost them for a few years financially to the PO or this is beyond laughable
BBC reporting about yet another failure of the state, post office, blood etc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1997z82gdro
It is forever the same no matter what the issue. "We will learn lessons" is about as useless a phrase as "x crisis", devalued language through political speak.
What people actually want is some for of accountability and responsibility. Criminal prosecutions. And not just those at the bottom who were usually told to do things by those at the top. Until there are consequences, governments will continue to protect themselves, their parties, their individuals, this type of government and civil service failure will continue.
We have regulators for many industries, how about one for the civil service and the government, bring them to account and prosecute them where they fail? Perhaps that may drive better standards and behaviour in our civil service and focus the minds of those who decide politics is a career for them?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1997z82gdro
It is forever the same no matter what the issue. "We will learn lessons" is about as useless a phrase as "x crisis", devalued language through political speak.
What people actually want is some for of accountability and responsibility. Criminal prosecutions. And not just those at the bottom who were usually told to do things by those at the top. Until there are consequences, governments will continue to protect themselves, their parties, their individuals, this type of government and civil service failure will continue.
We have regulators for many industries, how about one for the civil service and the government, bring them to account and prosecute them where they fail? Perhaps that may drive better standards and behaviour in our civil service and focus the minds of those who decide politics is a career for them?
Byker28i said:
Will it though? NHS closed ranks and covered up again, how many times has that happened and continues to
Unfortunately this seems to be the way of it. The press at the weekend was full of stories about the persecution of whistleblowers in the NHS and I don’t see any sign of a change. There’s probably other similar scandals out there, hopefully not on the scale of this one, but I’ve no confidence that something like this wouldn’t happen again.pavarotti1980 said:
MattsCar said:
Just watch the tardiness when it comes to paying out...apparently 70% involved have died already...wait a few more years and save x amount of money. Disgusting.
Same as the PO Scandal anddelayed WASPI women etc.
FTFYSame as the PO Scandal and
How you can even compare a group of women whose ignorance/inaction "may" have cost them for a few years financially to the PO or this is beyond laughable
MattsCar said:
I wasn't comparing them on a level of severity, just showing how these things are dragged out to save money.
I wont derail it any further than this post but the WASPI thing comes across as bit of a piss take, especially since my female relatives in that bracket were aware and planned for it. As I said inaction/ignorance is not an argument alangla said:
Byker28i said:
Will it though? NHS closed ranks and covered up again, how many times has that happened and continues to
Unfortunately this seems to be the way of it. The press at the weekend was full of stories about the persecution of whistleblowers in the NHS and I don’t see any sign of a change. There’s probably other similar scandals out there, hopefully not on the scale of this one, but I’ve no confidence that something like this wouldn’t happen again.Hants PHer said:
Sadly, I have to agree with both of you. The MO of the state appears fairly consistent: years (perhaps decades) of denial and/or accusing the wrong people (see Post Office, Hillsborough and Bloody Sunday). When the demands for investigation become too loud to ignore, announce a public inquiry that takes years to report back. By the time the inquiry does report, proclaim that "lessons will be learned" but that it's too difficult to prosecute anyone and anyway they're now all senile or dead. Meanwhile delay compensation payments as much as possible. And repeat.
Time and time again we see this and nothing changes. Senior politicians and civil servants must be absolutely thick because they never seem to learn these lessons. As others have said this has been widely known since the 90's, the only reason it has taken so long to get where we are today is to let as many of those responsible off the hook.
"Former health minister Ken Clarke's role in the scandal is under the spotlight following the release of the report.
In 1983, Clarke said there was "no conclusive proof" that Aids was being transmitted in blood products. That line would be repeated in the years to come.
The inquiry's report, published yesterday, found that this "whilst technically correct, was indefensible. It did not spell out the real risk. It gave false reassurance".
"It lacked candour and, by not telling the whole truth, was misleading," chairman Sir Brian Langstaff wrote.
The revelations in yesterday's report have led to debate now surrounding Clarke's position in the House of Lords.
Asked whether he should lose his peerage, work and pensions minister Mel Stride told Sky News it was a matter for the forfeiture committee - which decides if people should be stripped of their honours - rather than the government."
Hmmm.
In 1983, Clarke said there was "no conclusive proof" that Aids was being transmitted in blood products. That line would be repeated in the years to come.
The inquiry's report, published yesterday, found that this "whilst technically correct, was indefensible. It did not spell out the real risk. It gave false reassurance".
"It lacked candour and, by not telling the whole truth, was misleading," chairman Sir Brian Langstaff wrote.
The revelations in yesterday's report have led to debate now surrounding Clarke's position in the House of Lords.
Asked whether he should lose his peerage, work and pensions minister Mel Stride told Sky News it was a matter for the forfeiture committee - which decides if people should be stripped of their honours - rather than the government."
Hmmm.
Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence.
Lessons have already been learned but more by the industry and health regulators than governments, so far
My heart sinks whenever I see a public enquiry on TV news. It feels like putting people in the stocks. I'm sure far more could be done and be done more quickly in these scandals to get to the root cause as soon as there are alarm bells, than the circuses that follow decade's later.
Lessons have already been learned but more by the industry and health regulators than governments, so far
My heart sinks whenever I see a public enquiry on TV news. It feels like putting people in the stocks. I'm sure far more could be done and be done more quickly in these scandals to get to the root cause as soon as there are alarm bells, than the circuses that follow decade's later.
TUS373 said:
Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence.
Lessons have already been learned but more by the industry and health regulators than governments, so far
My heart sinks whenever I see a public enquiry on TV news. It feels like putting people in the stocks. I'm sure far more could be done and be done more quickly in these scandals to get to the root cause as soon as there are alarm bells, than the circuses that follow decade's later.
Maybe if we put some of the utter scum involved in the stocks it might stop similar happening in the future. I agree these enquiries just look like paying lip service to the rights of the little people and closing the stable door after the horse has bolted but it would be nice to see some actual justice delivered just once in my lifetime in cases like this.Lessons have already been learned but more by the industry and health regulators than governments, so far
My heart sinks whenever I see a public enquiry on TV news. It feels like putting people in the stocks. I'm sure far more could be done and be done more quickly in these scandals to get to the root cause as soon as there are alarm bells, than the circuses that follow decade's later.
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