buy to let or holiday let?
Poll: buy to let or holiday let?
Total Members Polled: 80
Discussion
Pit Pony said:
I'd definately go for a holiday let. Somewhere really rough. On the edge of a rough northern city.
Toxteth or Moss Side, or Nechells or Widnes. Or Speke.
Then specifically promote it as the Northern Experience, to powerfully built Directors from the soft south, on Piston heads.
Moss Side can have a certain, "Henley on Irwell" feel about it on a summers evening.... Toxteth or Moss Side, or Nechells or Widnes. Or Speke.
Then specifically promote it as the Northern Experience, to powerfully built Directors from the soft south, on Piston heads.
lornemalvo said:
There is another aspect to this that I don't think anyone has touched on, which is the moral issue. It may or may not bother you but if you BTL you are providing someone with a home. If you buy a HL you are depriving someone of a home. The previous poster who lets two HLs in Wales is depriving two families of a home. Wealthy Londoners have bought up large tracts of Wales and many are ghost towns in the off seasons. Arguments that it brings money into the local economy etc are codswallop. Someone living there puts more into the local economy. All year round.
I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
And the local who sold the property to a much higher non local should have an additional tax. His / her greed gets ignored in that arguement I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
Welshbeef said:
lornemalvo said:
There is another aspect to this that I don't think anyone has touched on, which is the moral issue. It may or may not bother you but if you BTL you are providing someone with a home. If you buy a HL you are depriving someone of a home. The previous poster who lets two HLs in Wales is depriving two families of a home. Wealthy Londoners have bought up large tracts of Wales and many are ghost towns in the off seasons. Arguments that it brings money into the local economy etc are codswallop. Someone living there puts more into the local economy. All year round.
I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
And the local who sold the property to a much higher non local should have an additional tax. His / her greed gets ignored in that arguement I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
lornemalvo said:
There is another aspect to this that I don't think anyone has touched on, which is the moral issue. It may or may not bother you but if you BTL you are providing someone with a home. If you buy a HL you are depriving someone of a home. The previous poster who lets two HLs in Wales is depriving two families of a home. Wealthy Londoners have bought up large tracts of Wales and many are ghost towns in the off seasons. Arguments that it brings money into the local economy etc are codswallop. Someone living there puts more into the local economy. All year round.
I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
Sorry but I strongly disagree, you are mixing your desire for a second home with the commercial running two fully occupied holiday let's. The financial benefit to community is demonstrably least 3-4x fold with commercially run fhl as opposed to local residents, more again compared to sporadically used second homes.weve been 100% occupied outside of short maintenance windows and put almost 50k of contracts with trades and local retailers.I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
You don't live here as you are capitalising on better employment prospects in England. Many who chose to stay in remote parts of Wales are on minimum wage and cannot afford mortgages. There is almost zero rental stock as the monthly payment expectations do not deliver a reward to offset the tax and regulatory changes introduced to discourage BTL landlords.
Cheap properties unsuitable for holiday letting traditionally stay on the market for a long time, flats for 50k, houses for 80k but few can afford to buy. Then you have everybody complaining there's no affordable properties in Tenby which are many multiples higher, whilst not being in a position to buy cheap property 15 miles distant.
The first minister has a holiday home in my village, there are 40 designated 'holiday lets' on the park with 50 week occupancy restrictions so nobody pays the increased council tax. All now in private hands, just one was in use over the Easter weekend. If that was outlawed it might reduce some demand on housing stock.
lornemalvo said:
Welshbeef said:
lornemalvo said:
There is another aspect to this that I don't think anyone has touched on, which is the moral issue. It may or may not bother you but if you BTL you are providing someone with a home. If you buy a HL you are depriving someone of a home. The previous poster who lets two HLs in Wales is depriving two families of a home. Wealthy Londoners have bought up large tracts of Wales and many are ghost towns in the off seasons. Arguments that it brings money into the local economy etc are codswallop. Someone living there puts more into the local economy. All year round.
I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
And the local who sold the property to a much higher non local should have an additional tax. His / her greed gets ignored in that arguement I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
Then the Senedd get greedy and want 300% council tax rise….when it is they for decades have in essence not brought in the high paying jobs meaning house prices are depressed and are then great buys from people in other areas.
Heck I see it in Reading where people moving out of London are really pushing prices up and making it frankly unaffordable for locals… should Reading put a 300% council tax uplift on those individuals?
But this is off topic - morally the seller is choosing to be quids in and not care about locals who cannot buy, the buyer may or may not be aware of that issue but there is no law to prevent you buying more land or property just like no law about buying more stocks and shares
Welshbeef said:
lornemalvo said:
Welshbeef said:
lornemalvo said:
There is another aspect to this that I don't think anyone has touched on, which is the moral issue. It may or may not bother you but if you BTL you are providing someone with a home. If you buy a HL you are depriving someone of a home. The previous poster who lets two HLs in Wales is depriving two families of a home. Wealthy Londoners have bought up large tracts of Wales and many are ghost towns in the off seasons. Arguments that it brings money into the local economy etc are codswallop. Someone living there puts more into the local economy. All year round.
I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
And the local who sold the property to a much higher non local should have an additional tax. His / her greed gets ignored in that arguement I am Welsh but live in England, having married an English woman. I can afford to buy and would really like a second home in Wales, but my conscience pricks me. I haven't ruled it out but it has held me back so far.
Then the Senedd get greedy and want 300% council tax rise….when it is they for decades have in essence not brought in the high paying jobs meaning house prices are depressed and are then great buys from people in other areas.
Heck I see it in Reading where people moving out of London are really pushing prices up and making it frankly unaffordable for locals… should Reading put a 300% council tax uplift on those individuals?
But this is off topic - morally the seller is choosing to be quids in and not care about locals who cannot buy, the buyer may or may not be aware of that issue but there is no law to prevent you buying more land or property just like no law about buying more stocks and shares
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Some great replies, thank you, interesting reading. Stupid newbe question - what is W&T ?
and regarding council tax etc, would this be classed as a second home for me though? i don't have another mortgage, other half owns where we live on her own...?
A mortgage is irrelevant for home status. It's about property ownership and also where is your main residence depending on which aspect you are looking at (ie if stamp duty or council tax etc)and regarding council tax etc, would this be classed as a second home for me though? i don't have another mortgage, other half owns where we live on her own...?
Pixelpeep 135 said:
Some great replies, thank you, interesting reading. Stupid newbe question - what is W&T ?
and regarding council tax etc, would this be classed as a second home for me though? i don't have another mortgage, other half owns where we live on her own...?
Have you been removed from the deeds on the 'family home' you reference below?and regarding council tax etc, would this be classed as a second home for me though? i don't have another mortgage, other half owns where we live on her own...?
If not then you will be paying +3% on top of standard stamp duty on any property purchase.
We rent out the flat my wife used to live in, but the ROI is poor and almost every month we have some kind of maintenance issue. Usually minor issues, but it's still a hassle, despite the fact it's fully managed we still have to engage with the management company and see the hit on the monthly income every time something goes wrong.
Coupled with the fact that we seem to struggle to find decent tenants each time tenants leave (despite it being in a sought after area), has made us decide to get rid of it.
I don't doubt it's possible to make reasonable money with minimal hassle in property, but I feel like it's not as easy as a lot of people think.
Coupled with the fact that we seem to struggle to find decent tenants each time tenants leave (despite it being in a sought after area), has made us decide to get rid of it.
I don't doubt it's possible to make reasonable money with minimal hassle in property, but I feel like it's not as easy as a lot of people think.
XJ75 said:
We rent out the flat my wife used to live in, but the ROI is poor and almost every month we have some kind of maintenance issue. Usually minor issues, but it's still a hassle, despite the fact it's fully managed we still have to engage with the management company and see the hit on the monthly income every time something goes wrong.
Coupled with the fact that we seem to struggle to find decent tenants each time tenants leave (despite it being in a sought after area), has made us decide to get rid of it.
I don't doubt it's possible to make reasonable money with minimal hassle in property, but I feel like it's not as easy as a lot of people think.
How much has the value of the property increased since you moved out of the flat? Coupled with the fact that we seem to struggle to find decent tenants each time tenants leave (despite it being in a sought after area), has made us decide to get rid of it.
I don't doubt it's possible to make reasonable money with minimal hassle in property, but I feel like it's not as easy as a lot of people think.
lornemalvo said:
Again, you're not listening. I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of second homes in general. I'm not talking about sellers' greed (although they'll have to pay just as much to live somewhere as nice as what they are selling, so not sure what they are gaining overall). I'm not talking about local politics or the legality of second homes, it's too obvious to mention. I was clearly talking about the moral decision that potential buyers will need to make. It will bother some, and won't bother others.
There’s a moral issue with both options. Second home can deprive locals and push prices up but on the flip side the local economy is boosted by people coming into the area and spending on a daily basis.
BTL is just as bad - 3 bed rent has gone from 750 via 950 to 995 in two years here. Market price, nothing more - supply and demand, partly due to the housing market and partly due to govt messing about with LLs too much. Add on the increase in living costs and there’s a serious moral question with BTL in my mind.
Shares/funds - tobacco? Oil and gas? Same again.
Leave your money in “apartheid loving” Barclays instead? When I was a student you’d get shouted at for morals there too…
andy43 said:
There’s a moral issue with both options.
Second home can deprive locals and push prices up but on the flip side the local economy is boosted by people coming into the area and spending on a daily basis.
BTL is just as bad - 3 bed rent has gone from 750 via 950 to 995 in two years here. Market price, nothing more - supply and demand, partly due to the housing market and partly due to govt messing about with LLs too much. Add on the increase in living costs and there’s a serious moral question with BTL in my mind.
Shares/funds - tobacco? Oil and gas? Same again.
Leave your money in “apartheid loving” Barclays instead? When I was a student you’d get shouted at for morals there too…
BTL has gone up as the Govt removed tax relief so landlords often pay 40-45% against all income without an ability to offset mortgage interest. They then rebalanced the whole thing in favour of the tenant, especially during Covid, leaving landlords exposed to non paying tenants who couldn't be removed.Second home can deprive locals and push prices up but on the flip side the local economy is boosted by people coming into the area and spending on a daily basis.
BTL is just as bad - 3 bed rent has gone from 750 via 950 to 995 in two years here. Market price, nothing more - supply and demand, partly due to the housing market and partly due to govt messing about with LLs too much. Add on the increase in living costs and there’s a serious moral question with BTL in my mind.
Shares/funds - tobacco? Oil and gas? Same again.
Leave your money in “apartheid loving” Barclays instead? When I was a student you’d get shouted at for morals there too…
Im presuming policy and tax changes were to drive a mass sell up, which was predictable and whats happened. The current lack of rental property and increased prices should be no surprise.
The only daft thing is some of the Welsh councils sat with millions of pounds of second home premiums, who rather than buying housing stock that could deliver them a return and has a future asset value - they ignored the situation and just sat on the cash. Buying cinema kits for village halls, tourism surveys to promote winter tourism on the welsh coast and new ride on mowers for football clubs, with the second home premiums.
Welshbeef said:
How much has the value of the property increased since you moved out of the flat?
Good question. Probably twice as much as yearly net yield I would guess. We also sold a BTL last year as getting to the CGT threshold. That was perhaps a bad short term move but then again we invested well and it allowed us to trigger substantial pension tax relief just before retirement, all swings and roundabouts. And the main thing, no hassle.Seventyseven7 said:
I can buy a place in Glasgow for 50k and earn £500 a month in rental income?
This can’t be right. I’d buy 10 of them if thats the case.
I think the issues areThis can’t be right. I’d buy 10 of them if thats the case.
1. The locals cannot or don’t want to buy them so you’ll be lumped with undellable houses
2. Indy Scotland could make them impossible to sell
3.grrr the Saxons /SNP
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