Unpopular opinion - NHS is useless

Unpopular opinion - NHS is useless

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Discussion

Sheepshanks

33,017 posts

121 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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jackofall84 said:
I also noted that some of the nurses are now getting their work emails on their personal mobile phones...I did wonder how secure this is, as if the phone gets stolen you're relying on the user of that phone to ensure it is secure.
We get waves of phishing emails at work that come from NHS (run by Capita) mail servers. So much so that anything nhs.net is automatically quarantineed. I read that it's reckoned hundreds of NHS devices / email accounts are compromised at any moment.

98elise

26,858 posts

163 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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Bonefish Blues said:
Red9zero said:
MesoForm said:
Slowboathome said:
Whole thing is a complete lottery.

I've generally had excellent care. My mate - 40 miles away has had some shocking experiences.
This seems to be the crux of it - either the care is first class with a whole team of people looking out for you or the patient is the one doing all the admin, chasing up appointment dates, printing off blood test forms, etc.
Same with my mother. She is in a neighbouring county, but the difference in NHS care is unbelievable. She needs a new hip on top of everything else at the moment and they are going to put her into a small private hospital in a matter of weeks to get it done. We are so used to the long waiting times by us, we were prepared to pay for her to go private. Even dentists and doctors in her area have next day appointments available.
Agree, we think of the NHS as a homogeneous thing, but it's far from that.
This. I did some contract work for the NHS and I was told to think of it as about 200 different companies operating under one name and delivering the same basic service, but organising things their own way.

LimmerickLad

1,076 posts

17 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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98elise said:
This. I did some contract work for the NHS and I was told to think of it as about 200 different companies operating under one name and delivering the same basic service, but organising things their own way.
My wife has done interim work at many different Trust around the country for the past 10yrs or so and it never ceases to amaze me how they are all run using completely different procedures / systems.

VeeReihenmotor6

2,201 posts

177 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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jackofall84 said:
said:
Interesting reading what you've all put there. My wife is a nurse and can also work from home occasionally. She has to use our PC/Laptop to VPN and remote desktop into her PC at work, as mentioned above though, there are restrictions on what she can do with the software on her Works machine when connected via Remote Desktop. On occasion though she can use one of the departments pool laptops. (Coincidentally I also use Remote Desktop if WFH, so if she knows we're both WFH on a particular day she'll bring a laptop back with her.)

Interestingly though, You could only use the pool laptop if you have your own smart phone as you need access to google authenticator.

I also noted that some of the nurses are now getting their work emails on their personal mobile phones...I did wonder how secure this is, as if the phone gets stolen you're relying on the user of that phone to ensure it is secure.
Yes exactly the same for my wife - she will forward things for printing to her personal email. She does delete it, and I suppose we all have responsibility, but i can't help but think these things should be designed more securely and fool proof.

Re google autheticator - my wife has the same and it's installed on her personal mobile to access work VPN systems.

VeeReihenmotor6

2,201 posts

177 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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LimmerickLad said:
98elise said:
This. I did some contract work for the NHS and I was told to think of it as about 200 different companies operating under one name and delivering the same basic service, but organising things their own way.
My wife has done interim work at many different Trust around the country for the past 10yrs or so and it never ceases to amaze me how they are all run using completely different procedures / systems.
This too - my wife's hospital implemented a paperless records system. It is brilliant actually however it doesn't link up to other hospitals so often things need to either be printed, screenshotted or rewritten when information needs transferring.

I find it mad that you look at the NHS and you'd think in 2023 with the technology and expertise we have on systems and procedures that there would be one central system for paperless records but nope each hospital trust does it's own thing and employ people to duplicate/rewrite or put that burden on the front line staff. I don't even think there is a strategy for such thing, it's just do as you want for each hospital.


M1AGM

2,395 posts

34 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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VeeReihenmotor6 said:
This too - my wife's hospital implemented a paperless records system. It is brilliant actually however it doesn't link up to other hospitals so often things need to either be printed, screenshotted or rewritten when information needs transferring.

I find it mad that you look at the NHS and you'd think in 2023 with the technology and expertise we have on systems and procedures that there would be one central system for paperless records but nope each hospital trust does it's own thing and employ people to duplicate/rewrite or put that burden on the front line staff. I don't even think there is a strategy for such thing, it's just do as you want for each hospital.
I agree but....Modernising, doing away with duplication of roles, all means likelihood of job losses. The unions will never accept that, so we carry on pumping endless billions into a 'system' that would have collapsed years ago if it wasn't being spoon fed taxpayers' money.

Blackpuddin

16,686 posts

207 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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MesoForm said:
Slowboathome said:
Whole thing is a complete lottery.

I've generally had excellent care. My mate - 40 miles away has had some shocking experiences.
This seems to be the crux of it - either the care is first class with a whole team of people looking out for you or the patient is the one doing all the admin, chasing up appointment dates, printing off blood test forms, etc.
My experience after an accident last year went from extremely good (reception/triage) to extremely bad (A&E 'care') in the same hospital.

pavarotti1980

5,010 posts

86 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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Sheepshanks said:
We get waves of phishing emails at work that come from NHS (run by Capita) mail servers. So much so that anything nhs.net is automatically quarantineed. I read that it's reckoned hundreds of NHS devices / email accounts are compromised at any moment.
Accenture won the contract from Vodafone to run NHSMail2 in 2016. Still running

Sheepshanks

33,017 posts

121 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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pavarotti1980 said:
Accenture won the contract from Vodafone to run NHSMail2 in 2016. Still running
Apologies to Capita - I still have a copy of one of headers. smtp1.e.amses.net (213.161.89.71) is Accenture.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Wednesday 6th September 14:31

Sheepshanks

33,017 posts

121 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
quotequote all
VeeReihenmotor6 said:
That is interesting. They have Teams set up in a way that you can only text chat, you can't make telephone calls from it. I showed my wife what I do with my stuff (I'm not NHS) and she took it to both IT and her Line Manager and "it's not trust policy" for O365 or making calls over teams. This is is a large university teaching hospital in London.
Obviosly you can't change the policy, but looking for something else I noticed this page which describes using Teams for calls: https://support.nhs.net/

Wadeski

8,173 posts

215 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
Sheepshanks said:
We get waves of phishing emails at work that come from NHS (run by Capita) mail servers. So much so that anything nhs.net is automatically quarantineed. I read that it's reckoned hundreds of NHS devices / email accounts are compromised at any moment.
Accenture won the contract from Vodafone to run NHSMail2 in 2016. Still running
Ahhh the private sector, solution to everything wink

pavarotti1980

5,010 posts

86 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
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Wadeski said:
Ahhh the private sector, solution to everything wink
I certainly wouldnt want the NHS to be touching email provision. How many public sector organisations have created and run their own? Most will be MS Outlook with infrastructure provided by a proper provider

Brainpox

4,059 posts

153 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
Wadeski said:
Ahhh the private sector, solution to everything wink
I certainly wouldnt want the NHS to be touching email provision. How many public sector organisations have created and run their own? Most will be MS Outlook with infrastructure provided by a proper provider
I've received a couple of emails this year from staff in community NHS trusts who have left NHS mail and gone to their 'own' system (now @xxx.nhs.uk instead of @nhs.net). When I first started 11 years ago we had our 'own' email service but got migrated to NHS mail shortly after, which was a revelation.

It's an odd move, presumably an attempt to cut costs in some way, just seems backwards. Hopefully not a sign of things to come. NHS mail was the only way that all trusts were linked together and now that could be slowly coming undone.

98elise

26,858 posts

163 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
quotequote all
LimmerickLad said:
98elise said:
This. I did some contract work for the NHS and I was told to think of it as about 200 different companies operating under one name and delivering the same basic service, but organising things their own way.
My wife has done interim work at many different Trust around the country for the past 10yrs or so and it never ceases to amaze me how they are all run using completely different procedures / systems.
Yep. I was dealing with what should be centralised data that was everything from paper records to full commercial software packages depending on the source.


pavarotti1980

5,010 posts

86 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
quotequote all
Brainpox said:
I've received a couple of emails this year from staff in community NHS trusts who have left NHS mail and gone to their 'own' system (now @xxx.nhs.uk instead of @nhs.net). When I first started 11 years ago we had our 'own' email service but got migrated to NHS mail shortly after, which was a revelation.

It's an odd move, presumably an attempt to cut costs in some way, just seems backwards. Hopefully not a sign of things to come. NHS mail was the only way that all trusts were linked together and now that could be slowly coming undone.
Most trusts have just done the opposite and migrated over to nhs.net since it's secure for PID

asfault

12,345 posts

181 months

Wednesday 6th September 2023
quotequote all
"paperless"

I've never seen that truely work in the private sector or public sector.
Many a ueful template to have ready to copy in seconds rather than log in load, click click change password system crash restart... etc

glazbagun

14,300 posts

199 months

Tuesday 31st October 2023
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Good stats thread on NHS troubles:

https://twitter.com/StuartHoddinott/status/1718919...

TL:DR is that experienced staff leaving has blunted the impact of new recruits since Covid, so staff are less productive on average, and we've underinvested (compared to OECD average), with the last decade being particularly bad.


ucb

964 posts

214 months

Tuesday 31st October 2023
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Interesting graph.
I am not sure that it will be possible to make up that defecit (given there isn't any point where the UK is above the average for the last 50 years) with the NHS delivering I healthcare in it's current format or breadth.

98elise

26,858 posts

163 months

Tuesday 31st October 2023
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
Wadeski said:
Ahhh the private sector, solution to everything wink
I certainly wouldnt want the NHS to be touching email provision. How many public sector organisations have created and run their own? Most will be MS Outlook with infrastructure provided by a proper provider
Agreed. You would have e 200 different solutions with everything from sticking with letters/memos, to developing their own in house email mail system.

As I've said before I've been on an NHS project to unpick and consolidate one of their systems and it was exactly like that.

Stuff like that is best farmed out.

Red9zero

7,069 posts

59 months

Tuesday 31st October 2023
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The NHS part of our dentist is now cancelling all appointments. If you are lucky, you get a phone call, if not, you find out when you get there. The reason given is all the NHS dentists have left and they will start rebooking when they get some new ones on. Truth is they won't. That part will be slowly wound down altogether and mysteriously reopen as all private within 6 months.