Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
trackdemon said:
Petrus1983 said:
This is the Jamie Chadwick thread and it seems to have done unnoticed she had a great drive to 3rd place in the Indy NXT championship. Very happy for her.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13135220/j...
Except it was mentioned on Saturday... https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13135220/j...
I did start another thread -
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
for general discussion about all Females in Motorsport, to highlight the current and emerging talent (and not just drivers), and to try and understand the challenges they face.
But, WRT Jamie Chadwick, my daughters have followed her since she won the Ginetta scholarship and there was a CBBC series about it.
Although the F1 boat may have sailed, she nevertheless has a fairly credible record as a driver, with 5 Championships (BGT, MRF F3, WSx3) and wins and/or podiums in BF3, Asia F3, Freca, IndyNXT, and she seems to try her hand at all sorts, even historics.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
for general discussion about all Females in Motorsport, to highlight the current and emerging talent (and not just drivers), and to try and understand the challenges they face.
But, WRT Jamie Chadwick, my daughters have followed her since she won the Ginetta scholarship and there was a CBBC series about it.
Although the F1 boat may have sailed, she nevertheless has a fairly credible record as a driver, with 5 Championships (BGT, MRF F3, WSx3) and wins and/or podiums in BF3, Asia F3, Freca, IndyNXT, and she seems to try her hand at all sorts, even historics.
Petrus1983 said:
This is the Jamie Chadwick thread and it seems to have done unnoticed she had a great drive to 3rd place in the Indy NXT championship. Very happy for her.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13135220/j...
I wish her wellhttps://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/13135220/j...
….but the elephant in the room is that she gained.a 3rd place in, effectively, Indy F2. We have seen well placed genuine F2 Championship winners look somewhat limp when it comes to the top table.
I thought that if any woman was going to make it, then Katherine Legge would be it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Legge.
At least she is competing with the big boys, aged 43.
https://www.indycar.com/news/2024/04/04-09-legge-i...
A few back markers from F1 have been successful in the States, none from there have been successful in F1. I honestly do not see Jamie going the whole way to F1, she already is too old. At best she may have a long career in Sports Car racing.
rdjohn said:
A few back markers from F1 have been successful in the States, none from there have been successful in F1. I honestly do not see Jamie going the whole way to F1, she already is too old. At best she may have a long career in Sports Car racing.
None of the back markers but Andretti Sr, Villeneuve Jr, Montoya?carl_w said:
rdjohn said:
A few back markers from F1 have been successful in the States, none from there have been successful in F1. I honestly do not see Jamie going the whole way to F1, she already is too old. At best she may have a long career in Sports Car racing.
None of the back markers but Andretti Sr, Villeneuve Jr, Montoya?Depressing that people see her as too old. It wasn't that long ago that F1 was something you got to after competing in many different series in your late 20's, early 30's. These days it seems if you're not in F1 before you stop being a teenager you're washed up. Perhaps if an F1 career wasn't becoming 18 to 40+ we would see a lot more variety in drivers?
GlobalRacer said:
Depressing that people see her as too old. It wasn't that long ago that F1 was something you got to after competing in many different series in your late 20's, early 30's. These days it seems if you're not in F1 before you stop being a teenager you're washed up. Perhaps if an F1 career wasn't becoming 18 to 40+ we would see a lot more variety in drivers?
If they added a couple more teams then there would be a bit more capacity...rdjohn said:
I wish her well
….but the elephant in the room is that she gained.a 3rd place in, effectively, Indy F2. We have seen well placed genuine F2 Championship winners look somewhat limp when it comes to the top table.
I thought that if any woman was going to make it, then Katherine Legge would be it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Legge.
At least she is competing with the big boys, aged 43.
https://www.indycar.com/news/2024/04/04-09-legge-i...
A few back markers from F1 have been successful in the States, none from there have been successful in F1. I honestly do not see Jamie going the whole way to F1, she already is too old. At best she may have a long career in Sports Car racing.
Thanks for posting this - a very long time ago I used to know Katherine to a small degree (say hi in the paddock, ask how each others racing was going etc). Really lovely girl so I'm glad she's still keeping at it. Now gives me a reason to follow the Indy500 this year too. ….but the elephant in the room is that she gained.a 3rd place in, effectively, Indy F2. We have seen well placed genuine F2 Championship winners look somewhat limp when it comes to the top table.
I thought that if any woman was going to make it, then Katherine Legge would be it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Legge.
At least she is competing with the big boys, aged 43.
https://www.indycar.com/news/2024/04/04-09-legge-i...
A few back markers from F1 have been successful in the States, none from there have been successful in F1. I honestly do not see Jamie going the whole way to F1, she already is too old. At best she may have a long career in Sports Car racing.
GlobalRacer said:
Depressing that people see her as too old. It wasn't that long ago that F1 was something you got to after competing in many different series in your late 20's, early 30's. These days it seems if you're not in F1 before you stop being a teenager you're washed up. Perhaps if an F1 career wasn't becoming 18 to 40+ we would see a lot more variety in drivers?
Indeed. Jamie Chadwick is 25. Damon Hill was 31 when he landed an F1 test role.Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Forester1965 said:
TheDeuce said:
What do you mean 'still'? I already replied to you above, I'm no expert in 'why' but they cleary struggle when it comes to extended periods of coping with such a battering of forces. There's an issue with strength.
It's like you clearly struggle to hang onto a discussion without repeating the same questions and repeatedly ignoring the same answers.
What evidence do you have that a woman is physically incapable of coping with 1.5hrs driving an F1 car at full speed?It's like you clearly struggle to hang onto a discussion without repeating the same questions and repeatedly ignoring the same answers.
Assuming you mean full speed, as in, the competitive pace of the car..?
If so my evidence is that not a single woman has ever come close the grade at anything like F1 level, over a race distance.
Come on….you must surely realise that there are a myriad of other reasons for that fact?
That’s bonkers.
Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
andyA700 said:
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Forester1965 said:
TheDeuce said:
What do you mean 'still'? I already replied to you above, I'm no expert in 'why' but they cleary struggle when it comes to extended periods of coping with such a battering of forces. There's an issue with strength.
It's like you clearly struggle to hang onto a discussion without repeating the same questions and repeatedly ignoring the same answers.
What evidence do you have that a woman is physically incapable of coping with 1.5hrs driving an F1 car at full speed?It's like you clearly struggle to hang onto a discussion without repeating the same questions and repeatedly ignoring the same answers.
Assuming you mean full speed, as in, the competitive pace of the car..?
If so my evidence is that not a single woman has ever come close the grade at anything like F1 level, over a race distance.
Come on….you must surely realise that there are a myriad of other reasons for that fact?
That’s bonkers.
Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
Maybe the fact woman have steadier hands is an advantage? Maybe if there was more equal participation numbers in the lower levels the entire grid would be female.
andyA700 said:
Do you really think that physiology doesn't matter in F1?
Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
No I don’t agree that men in general have better reactions. The evidence doesn’t support that.Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
In terms of cardiovascular systems, women outpace men on certain events such as endurance sea swimming.
You are making an assumption that the required level of physical fitness for F1 is at a level significantly ahead of that achievable by appropriately-conditioned females. Do you have evidence of that? F1 isn’t, say, an Olympic athletic sport - there’s a *necessary* physical level, but it isn’t a physical competition.
andyA700 said:
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Forester1965 said:
TheDeuce said:
What do you mean 'still'? I already replied to you above, I'm no expert in 'why' but they cleary struggle when it comes to extended periods of coping with such a battering of forces. There's an issue with strength.
It's like you clearly struggle to hang onto a discussion without repeating the same questions and repeatedly ignoring the same answers.
What evidence do you have that a woman is physically incapable of coping with 1.5hrs driving an F1 car at full speed?It's like you clearly struggle to hang onto a discussion without repeating the same questions and repeatedly ignoring the same answers.
Assuming you mean full speed, as in, the competitive pace of the car..?
If so my evidence is that not a single woman has ever come close the grade at anything like F1 level, over a race distance.
Come on….you must surely realise that there are a myriad of other reasons for that fact?
That’s bonkers.
Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
Fitness is a required attribute in F1 but skill is more important. A driver needs to reach a fitness bar, beyond which skill takes over. As long as a woman can reach that bar (which they can) then skill becomes the requisite.
This is demonstrated with different physiques of the men - Esteban Ocon is 6ft 1in and 66kgs and Yuki Tsunoda is 5ft 2in and 54kgs. Ocon isn't considered to be at an advantage because he has the capacity to physiologically be bigger and stronger than Tsunoda.
On the contrary, up until quite recently, being smaller and lighter was an advantage - Jenson Button has talked about the struggles to get down to a weight target in his F1 days when car and driver were weighed together.
The point is, the record of women in motorsport compared to men has virtually nothing to do with physiology and everything to do with ratio of women in motorsport versus men.
Muzzer79 said:
I didn't say it didn't matter. I said it wasn't the only reason a woman had not made it to the highest standard in F1 - That would be like saying women are worse astronauts than men because a woman hasn't landed on the moon.
Fitness is a required attribute in F1 but skill is more important. A driver needs to reach a fitness bar, beyond which skill takes over. As long as a woman can reach that bar (which they can) then skill becomes the requisite.
This is demonstrated with different physiques of the men - Esteban Ocon is 6ft 1in and 66kgs and Yuki Tsunoda is 5ft 2in and 54kgs. Ocon isn't considered to be at an advantage because he has the capacity to physiologically be bigger and stronger than Tsunoda.
On the contrary, up until quite recently, being smaller and lighter was an advantage - Jenson Button has talked about the struggles to get down to a weight target in his F1 days when car and driver were weighed together.
The point is, the record of women in motorsport compared to men has virtually nothing to do with physiology and everything to do with ratio of women in motorsport versus men.
Is the right answer. Fitness is a required attribute in F1 but skill is more important. A driver needs to reach a fitness bar, beyond which skill takes over. As long as a woman can reach that bar (which they can) then skill becomes the requisite.
This is demonstrated with different physiques of the men - Esteban Ocon is 6ft 1in and 66kgs and Yuki Tsunoda is 5ft 2in and 54kgs. Ocon isn't considered to be at an advantage because he has the capacity to physiologically be bigger and stronger than Tsunoda.
On the contrary, up until quite recently, being smaller and lighter was an advantage - Jenson Button has talked about the struggles to get down to a weight target in his F1 days when car and driver were weighed together.
The point is, the record of women in motorsport compared to men has virtually nothing to do with physiology and everything to do with ratio of women in motorsport versus men.
Yes, there’s a minimum level of required fitness, which might be harder for the average woman to achieve than the average man - but mostly it’s a numbers game, and we need to get a whole load more 8-year-old girls more interested in driving karts than riding horses.
If kadet karts were 50-50 rather than 95-5, we’d see more women come though as pro drivers a decade later.
Sandpit Steve said:
Is the right answer.
Yes, there’s a minimum level of required fitness, which might be harder for the average woman to achieve than the average man - but mostly it’s a numbers game, and we need to get a whole load more 8-year-old girls more interested in driving karts than riding horses.
If kadet karts were 50-50 rather than 95-5, we’d see more women come though as pro drivers a decade later.
It's not and never will be. Women have other interests.Yes, there’s a minimum level of required fitness, which might be harder for the average woman to achieve than the average man - but mostly it’s a numbers game, and we need to get a whole load more 8-year-old girls more interested in driving karts than riding horses.
If kadet karts were 50-50 rather than 95-5, we’d see more women come though as pro drivers a decade later.
Just back from a day at circuit, i saw one female driver out of circa 100 males.
GlobalRacer said:
Depressing that people see her as too old. It wasn't that long ago that F1 was something you got to after competing in many different series in your late 20's, early 30's. These days it seems if you're not in F1 before you stop being a teenager you're washed up. Perhaps if an F1 career wasn't becoming 18 to 40+ we would see a lot more variety in drivers?
It's okay Lance Stroll will still be in F1 when he's 60Sandpit Steve said:
Is the right answer.
Yes, there’s a minimum level of required fitness, which might be harder for the average woman to achieve than the average man - but mostly it’s a numbers game, and we need to get a whole load more 8-year-old girls more interested in driving karts than riding horses.
If kadet karts were 50-50 rather than 95-5, we’d see more women come though as pro drivers a decade later.
The question is: are girls interested in it?Yes, there’s a minimum level of required fitness, which might be harder for the average woman to achieve than the average man - but mostly it’s a numbers game, and we need to get a whole load more 8-year-old girls more interested in driving karts than riding horses.
If kadet karts were 50-50 rather than 95-5, we’d see more women come though as pro drivers a decade later.
This mentality of “proping up” females into motorsport is flawed, perhaps because it’s just a reflection of the current woke culture.
Take Victoria Verstappen, for example. Her mom was a talented driver and she could have inherited the racing structure of her brother. I know she did some practice, not sure if she took part in any race, but later decided it was not for her.
Same with the Raikkonens, the boy is a kart freak, the younger sister did a few practice sessions but is more interested in gymnastics.
skwdenyer said:
andyA700 said:
Do you really think that physiology doesn't matter in F1?
Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
No I don’t agree that men in general have better reactions. The evidence doesn’t support that.Do you agree that men have different physiology to women, which makes them stronger, quicker reaction times, larger heart and lungs leading to a far better cardiovascular system?
Have you ever heard of the term "marginal gains"?
F1 is a sport, a very demanding one.
Have you compare women's sports records to mens?
In terms of cardiovascular systems, women outpace men on certain events such as endurance sea swimming.
You are making an assumption that the required level of physical fitness for F1 is at a level significantly ahead of that achievable by appropriately-conditioned females. Do you have evidence of that? F1 isn’t, say, an Olympic athletic sport - there’s a *necessary* physical level, but it isn’t a physical competition.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31983...
This thread really does just keep going round in circles.
I think we can firmly put to bed that Jamie isn't going near F1
The Jess Hawkins thing was a stunt
Abbi Pulling is our only female UK hope, she's talented and the right age but she needs to get away from the academy and beat the boys in f4, 3, 2.. the recipe to get to F1 hasn't changed. It's amazing that most people don't see F1 academy for what it is, to pacify those who think women aren't getting a shot.
The reality is those years in formula woman for Jamie were the nail in her F1 coffin. Not that I think she was good enough anyway. I think Abbi could be but she needs to not waste any time in a championship that means f
k all and prove herself.
Let's just follow them and see how they get on.
I think we can firmly put to bed that Jamie isn't going near F1
The Jess Hawkins thing was a stunt
Abbi Pulling is our only female UK hope, she's talented and the right age but she needs to get away from the academy and beat the boys in f4, 3, 2.. the recipe to get to F1 hasn't changed. It's amazing that most people don't see F1 academy for what it is, to pacify those who think women aren't getting a shot.
The reality is those years in formula woman for Jamie were the nail in her F1 coffin. Not that I think she was good enough anyway. I think Abbi could be but she needs to not waste any time in a championship that means f
k all and prove herself. Let's just follow them and see how they get on.
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