The Official Japanese GP thread 2013
Discussion
ash73 said:
mollytherocker said:
They have produced what was requested.
I don't think that's correct, we've had dangerous failures resulting in construction changes midway through the season which tipped the balance of the WDC; and tyres of the same compound are inconsistent from set to set.I hope for their sake that they have a clear and safe working design for next year.
andyps said:
ash73 said:
and tyres of the same compound are inconsistent from set to set.
Where has that come from, it isn't something I have heard anyone who has any connection with the tyres to have said.e21Mark said:
I'm pretty sure I heard Coulthard remark that the DRS hadn't worked as would have been expected, when he initially caught and tried to pass Grossjean.
Webber said he was hitting the rev limiter, DRS won't let the engine rev past the pre-set limit so the car won't go any faster. In that situation DRS can't work as expected, but that doesn't mean it's broken.RYH64E said:
Webber said he was hitting the rev limiter, DRS won't let the engine rev past the pre-set limit so the car won't go any faster. In that situation DRS can't work as expected, but that doesn't mean it's broken.
I did think that it didn't open on at least one lap when he was trying to pass, but it was a high angle on the camera shot so hard to be 100% sure.e21Mark said:
I'm pretty sure I heard Coulthard remark that the DRS hadn't worked as would have been expected, when he initially caught and tried to pass Grossjean. Webber has been extremely unlucky this season, with regard to mechanical gremlins.
Vettel managed to pass Grosjean without opening the DRS until the move was actually done. Mark's problem was he didn't keep close enough (or wasn't able to) coming out of the chicane.... a downside to running less rear wing perhaps means less traction? VolvoT5 said:
Vettel managed to pass Grosjean without opening the DRS until the move was actually done. Mark's problem was he didn't keep close enough (or wasn't able to) coming out of the chicane.... a downside to running less rear wing perhaps means less traction?
This.I'm not a big Vettel fan but at the same time I'm prepared to give credit where it's due. You could see from just watching that where Webber needed to be right up Grosjean's chuff on the corner before the opening straight he just wasn't, he was too far back. And that was on faster tyres, with Grosjean being on ones that had done more laps than when Vettel passed him at exactly the same place.
DRS appeared to be working from the television coverage.
VolvoT5 said:
Vettel managed to pass Grosjean without opening the DRS until the move was actually done. Mark's problem was he didn't keep close enough (or wasn't able to) coming out of the chicane.... a downside to running less rear wing perhaps means less traction?
When Sky interviewed Vettel he said he did have it open, but as Grosjean tried to squeeze him he lifted briefly so it closed again then reopened it.Durzel said:
This.
I'm not a big Vettel fan but at the same time I'm prepared to give credit where it's due. You could see from just watching that where Webber needed to be right up Grosjean's chuff on the corner before the opening straight he just wasn't, he was too far back. And that was on faster tyres, with Grosjean being on ones that had done more laps than when Vettel passed him at exactly the same place.
DRS appeared to be working from the television coverage.
I wish it was that simple, but I fear it is not.I'm not a big Vettel fan but at the same time I'm prepared to give credit where it's due. You could see from just watching that where Webber needed to be right up Grosjean's chuff on the corner before the opening straight he just wasn't, he was too far back. And that was on faster tyres, with Grosjean being on ones that had done more laps than when Vettel passed him at exactly the same place.
DRS appeared to be working from the television coverage.
I am as guilty as any on here to making rash judgements based on limited information, but F1 is so complicated these days, that there are multiple variables that are difficult to easily compute.
Hell, the teams have about 50 computers at the tracks and still get it wrong!!!
Its why there are so many arguments on here about who is 'best'. We just do not know!
Gaz. said:
mollytherocker said:
Did Marks DRS fail? I didnt here about that?
Brundle wasn't sure but it certainly worked later on. Webber lost yards hand over fist through the chicane & exit yet gained them back and more out of the hairpin and on towards Spoon.Gaz. said:
Click on timing:http://www.fia.com/championship/fia-formula-1-worl...
In the first stint Webber drops into the 1m39s which increases the gap to RoGro, Seb is in the 1m38/39s and pits on lap 14.
Because Webber pits earlier he is compromised and suckered into the 3-stopper which the team decided to use.
Based on that information would you let Webber have a go at nearly 25 laps on primes?
Oh if there if RBR are deliberately handicapping Webber I would thought he would be shooting his mouth off about it by now and why would he want to stay at RBR all this time? I don't think it would have taken this long to just deliberately handicap a driver.
I guess it will all come out after Webber's racing career is over.
valais said:
andyps said:
ash73 said:
and tyres of the same compound are inconsistent from set to set.
Where has that come from, it isn't something I have heard anyone who has any connection with the tyres to have said.andyps said:
Evidence please, where has this been reported by someone who would actually be in a position to know this is fact rather than interweb conjecture?
There is no evidence.The tyres are consistent. What is inconsistent is the cars and there use of the tyres. The tyre design has been compromised by the fia and the teams are struggling to maximise their potential in a very tight window. Its not random, its designed.
I dont understand why people dont get this.
andyps said:
Evidence please, where has this been reported by someone who would actually be in a position to know this is fact rather than interweb conjecture?
I'll find you some quotes, but by their very nature no two sets are identical. I remover quotes from the Scumacher Bridgestone years where he had a "bad set". Curing, tyre blankets, heat cycles, storage. It's just chemistry, no two sets are identical, you will always get different behaviours.This is a forum, lighten up.
not just F1 either. http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresul...
From 2012 http://www.etyres.co.uk/news/pirelli-counters-clai...
Paul may wish to revisit the last sentence. "Finally he added: “All I can say is that the quality is exemplary. In fact, we have had no tyre failures at all, which we are told is something new in Formula One.”"
From 2012 http://www.etyres.co.uk/news/pirelli-counters-clai...
Paul may wish to revisit the last sentence. "Finally he added: “All I can say is that the quality is exemplary. In fact, we have had no tyre failures at all, which we are told is something new in Formula One.”"
e21Mark said:
Webber said he could have finished the race on 2 stops and was surprised when the team called him in for a third. He asked ''are you guys sure?'' to which they said yes. It's pretty clear who Red Bull wanted to win.
"The race today was pretty good, but I'd have liked one more step on the podium but there were different strategies going on," said Webber."I'm pretty happy with second but you always want a bit more. I got the best from what I could today.
"In the end we went to a three-stop but we we got back to where we were."
toppstuff said:
vonuber said:
toppstuff said:
Thats my take. And Im convinced that Webbers car is a couple of tenths slower, regardless of the driver.
I'm curious, why not the simpler explanation that he is just not as fast? It is my belief that RB have such an exceptional car, that they decided to manage the gap between their drivers in order to reduce the chances of any on track clashes after the "Multi 21" debacle. Sponsors hated that silly affair. RB realised they had a much better car than anyone else with a margin to spare, so they have engineered a difference between the cars so as to ensure they minimise their time near each other on the track.
Setting a clear driver hierarchy in the team is not just about managing the drivers for Red Bull, they have such a technological and design advantage this season that they can also afford to manage the difference between one car and another, without prejudicing the teams overall performance.
It is interesting how since "Multi 21" the RB's have never been near each other on a track. I think this is intentional.
Mark is not as far behind Seb as you think. And certainly not as far behind as these recent performances suggest.
Hell, the two cars don't even sound the same anymore...
The racing is actually fun. The bitterness from those who can't see greatness in a driver is truly astonishing.
All the stuff you're talking about is conjecture - made up.
You must have a really low opinion of Mark Webber if you think he is in an inferior car and not saying anything about it.
ash73 said:
andyps said:
Evidence please, where has this been reported by someone who would actually be in a position to know this is fact rather than interweb conjecture?
Would you take the word of a certain Sebastian Vettel...?Vettel said:
We haven’t been able to tick all the boxes we would have liked to and the last two days weren’t as good as we had expected, but there is a bit of time left until the season starts. I think we all have been limited by what the tyres can do. It was extremely difficult to read some set-up changes and find a direction with the car as the tyres were simply not good enough. Testing was good for us as a whole but surely we would have loved to have had more consistency.
hereSure, they may not be absolutely, totally, 100% identical but no driver or team personnel have said they are suffering from tyres varying from batch to batch.
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