Vettel and traction control?
Discussion
Megaflow said:
Scuffers said:
yes, but combine that with max kers harvesting, and that's exactly what it would be, ABS for Kers at full recovery rate (ie, you blip the engine to prevent lockup caused by KERS)
this also has the effect of using engine power to charge KERS, something that's not supposed to be done.
Correct. So it isn't traction control. TC would be cutting engine power to reduce wheel spin. Powering the engine to reduce locking during KERS harvesting would be ABS, or a form of.this also has the effect of using engine power to charge KERS, something that's not supposed to be done.
So, the video has nothing to do with Vettel using traction control as it shows him on the way into a corner.
not sure at what point doing so would conflict with the rules either, it's not that clear cut
carinaman said:
Someone said last year, was it Anthony Davidson, or someone said it to him that Vettel works better with the blown floor, and that's one of the reasons Vettel caught up Webber over last season. It was the changes made to the blown floor.
There's the argument he needs the right car to really excel.You can go back to the double diffusers as well as the evolution of blown diffusers, and even 2008 season: for the first half of the season he looked like nothing special until STR brought out their B-spec car. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23259028
Scuffers said:
wasn't making comment on the specific video and what it does/does not show, I was making the point that you could use KERS for ABS and TC.
not sure at what point doing so would conflict with the rules either, it's not that clear cut
Ah, yes KERS could be quite useful at replicating both, although only on the rear axle obviously, but like you I am not sure if that is specifically worded in the rules or not.not sure at what point doing so would conflict with the rules either, it's not that clear cut
I watched the Singapore GP from the chicane just before the Anderson Bridge. Vettel was the only driver who didn't 'appear' to be changing down through there, and was visably quicker than anyone else through that section. Multiply by 22 or so more corners, and you have your answer. I remember Mansell saying how he accidentally went through the Becketts Curves too fast during practice for the '92 British GP. The car held on and thereafter he was a minimum 1 second faster than the rest of the field for the remainder of the weekend.
I like the Vettel, however much I'd prefer to see Lewis or Jenson winning. Four straight championships in this period of rules stability will be seen as very impresive in the future - just as Senna is now. Watch and admire. I've seen a good few world champions in action now, and the cream always rises to the top.
I like the Vettel, however much I'd prefer to see Lewis or Jenson winning. Four straight championships in this period of rules stability will be seen as very impresive in the future - just as Senna is now. Watch and admire. I've seen a good few world champions in action now, and the cream always rises to the top.
entropy said:
There's the argument he needs the right car to really excel.
You can go back to the double diffusers as well as the evolution of blown diffusers, and even 2008 season: for the first half of the season he looked like nothing special until STR brought out their B-spec car. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23259028
He hardly thrashed his contemporaries on the way through the lower formulae did he?You can go back to the double diffusers as well as the evolution of blown diffusers, and even 2008 season: for the first half of the season he looked like nothing special until STR brought out their B-spec car. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23259028
I don't have an issue with him winning all of the time, the booing is a little off. I'll be happy if he equals or beats Schumacher's 7 titles though would prefer it if he won them fairly than with a compliant, lapdog team mate.
carinaman said:
He hardly thrashed his contemporaries on the way through the lower formulae did he?
Only three drivers on the current grid actually "thrashed" their contemporaries through the lower formulae: Hamilton, Hulkenberg, and Bianchi.As for Vettel, he won the 2004 ADAC Formula BMW championship with 18 wins from 20 races, and was leading the WSBR championship in 2007 before he got F1 race seats. So he at least did some thrashing, although obviously not in F3. Raikkonen did some thrashing in Formula Renault before jumping into F1.
Alonso and Button are the two WDCs with the least notable junior careers. Neither of them showed any dominance. And then there are all the other drivers in F1, some who hadn't won even a single championship in the junior formulae (eg. Max Chilton).
Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 1st October 22:20
The noise on vid
http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/2013/09/30...
Does sound like a different map than others, deffo sounds like dropped cylanders, very blown exhaust era.
http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/2013/09/30...
Does sound like a different map than others, deffo sounds like dropped cylanders, very blown exhaust era.
Jungles said:
carinaman said:
He hardly thrashed his contemporaries on the way through the lower formulae did he?
Only three drivers on the current grid actually "thrashed" their contemporaries through the lower formulae: Hamilton, Hulkenberg, and Bianchi.As for Vettel, he won the 2004 ADAC Formula BMW championship with 18 wins from 20 races, and was leading the WSBR championship in 2007 before he got F1 race seats. So he at least did some thrashing, although obviously not in F3. Raikkonen did some thrashing in Formula Renault before jumping into F1.
Alonso and Button are the two WDCs with the least notable junior careers. Neither of them showed any dominance. And then there are all the other drivers in F1, some who hadn't won even a single championship in the junior formulae (eg. Max Chilton).
Really? A very quick check shows they had very short pre-F1 careers, both of which included dominating a championship! It seems to me there was a change in team philosophies between Kimi/Button/Alonso era and Vettel/Hamilton era - the first 3 were fast tracked to F1 very young, SV and LH both had a much longer 'managed' progression.
Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 1st October 22:20
Composite Guru said:
walsh said:
Is it possible ( and I admit this may be a stretch), that Vettel is, well, just the quickest guy out there in an F1 car?
Just a thought.
I think that is probably bang on. No brit likes a german winning so its always going to be something else thats winning the race. Just a thought.
Composite Guru said:
walsh said:
Is it possible ( and I admit this may be a stretch), that Vettel is, well, just the quickest guy out there in an F1 car?
Just a thought.
I think that is probably bang on. No brit likes a german winning so its always going to be something else thats winning the race. Just a thought.
Personally I don't dislike Vettel for being German. No arguing with his talent or apparent superiority of the Redbull car.
I went to Monza this year and sat at the second chicane for the race. It was notable that every other car in the field ran over the outside curb on the exit every lap, using all the available track. Vettel apparently had no need to push so hard. It just looked so easy for him.
John D. said:
I went to Monza this year and sat at the second chicane for the race. It was notable that every other car in the field ran over the outside curb on the exit every lap, using all the available track. Vettel apparently had no need to push so hard. It just looked so easy for him.
Could it be something as simple as staying on the flat stuff allowing the car's aerodynamics to work better than if the airflow is disturbed by the car bumping over kerbs ?MartG said:
John D. said:
I went to Monza this year and sat at the second chicane for the race. It was notable that every other car in the field ran over the outside curb on the exit every lap, using all the available track. Vettel apparently had no need to push so hard. It just looked so easy for him.
Could it be something as simple as staying on the flat stuff allowing the car's aerodynamics to work better than if the airflow is disturbed by the car bumping over kerbs ?ETA:
I see your point but it looks like the drivers had all worked out that running wide and straightening the turn was the best course of action to maximise traction and get out of the turn as quick as possible. Even at the cost of upsetting the aero for second - the benefits of an 'easier' line (better traction) clearly out weighed the fractional loss of downforce. Other factors to be weighed up include: potential for bouncing around on the curb a bit/risk of puncture/going too wide and into the gravel.
Vettel simply didn't have to take that risk and could still run a quicker lap time than anyone else. He has the traction without having to straighten the curve.
Edited by John D. on Wednesday 2nd October 21:22
"If you look at the onboard, he is on the power full throttle at least 20 metres before anyone else, which is a huge advantage."
"There is nothing you can really do, as you are always asking for more rear downforce."
"The last time I was able to put the pedal down that quick was back in 2007 or 2008, when we had traction control."
Lewis Hamilton interviewed in Korea this week. Was this a) a compliment to Vettel or b) a veiled accusation that RB do run some form of TC ??
"There is nothing you can really do, as you are always asking for more rear downforce."
"The last time I was able to put the pedal down that quick was back in 2007 or 2008, when we had traction control."
Lewis Hamilton interviewed in Korea this week. Was this a) a compliment to Vettel or b) a veiled accusation that RB do run some form of TC ??
moffspeed said:
"If you look at the onboard, he is on the power full throttle at least 20 metres before anyone else, which is a huge advantage."
"There is nothing you can really do, as you are always asking for more rear downforce."
"The last time I was able to put the pedal down that quick was back in 2007 or 2008, when we had traction control."
Lewis Hamilton interviewed in Korea this week. Was this a) a compliment to Vettel or b) a veiled accusation that RB do run some form of TC ??
Thought that was a quite significant set of comments. "There is nothing you can really do, as you are always asking for more rear downforce."
"The last time I was able to put the pedal down that quick was back in 2007 or 2008, when we had traction control."
Lewis Hamilton interviewed in Korea this week. Was this a) a compliment to Vettel or b) a veiled accusation that RB do run some form of TC ??
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