£20k - fast / engaging

I have a budget of approx £20k for a car. If possible I want something that I might occasionally get up on a Sunday morning to "just drive".

Requirements:
- Petrol cars only
- Fun / interesting to drive. I want some engagement at road speeds and am not interested in racing German hatchbacks off the traffic lights
- Automatic - despite the above I think I'm happy with an auto/flappy paddles because most of my driving is not very interesting and traffic is horrendous. Would consider a manual depending on the car though.
- Seat at least 4 adults. Rules out cars which are actually quite fun to drive like MX5s and GT86 type stuff
- Fast
- Don't particularly want to go much older than about 2017 if possible
- RWD, but I guess I'll probably have to settle for FWD as usual due to the lack of cars at my price point
- Reasonably practical as the other car in my household is not practical at all. Tip runs, IKEA shopping, etc, should all be possible
- Won't annoy the neighbours at unsociable hours
- Fuel economy isn't important as I don't do loads of miles. One or two long-ish trips per year but rarely over 8000 miles, if that.
- Insurance seems to be a bit random for me, some cars are very cheap, others are coming in over £1.5k which is ridiculous when I've got something like 15 years NCB, live in a quite cul-de-sac in a small town and am the wrong side of 40. So it is a consideration.

Based on my general requirements I keep coming back to things like Golf GTis and Skoda Octavia VRS Estates but neither of them are particularly exciting to drive. I've had an Octavia VRS for an extended test drive and it was ... ok. I can see the appeal of the platform because it's huge inside and has a decent spec for the price, plus it's not mega slow, but it's obviously compromised.

Note: I had a brand new GTI TCR in 2020 and it was alright but I never thought it was very interesting to drive, certainly not for the £40k-ish price tag which was a lot for a Golf at the time.

There's also a bunch of smaller BMWs that are great on paper but I don't like the image of the 1 series in general, nor did I think they (M140i) were the last word in driver engagement when test driving, although I am stretching my memory back to 2019. I also see things like the 340i/440i coming down in price but not convinced they're very exciting to drive other than raw pace - admittedly have not test driven anything like that yet though.

I've ruled out stuff like the Audi S3/S5 provisionally as well, because when I test drove one around the same time as the M140i I found them extremely uninteresting and boring to drive, aside from being quite fast in a straight line. In the corners it wasn't very encouraging and I don't think there was much in the way of steering feel. This seems to be the experience of a lot of people, even up to some of the RS models. Maybe I'm wrong?

Any thoughts? I am being really picky, so apologies in advance.

Audi TT (mk3, 230ish bhp one). It's almost paid for and she won't get rid of it. Completely impractical, may as well be a two-seater and is not very fun to drive. But, it makes no sense financially to change it.

The S4 Avant is a very good shout and as with a lot of these cars I should go and test drive one.

340i touring.. seems like a great option. Not loads of them around though at my price point.

Are you sure you can fit adults in the back of a 2 series? I have to have my seat all the way back in most cars.

That'd be nice wouldn't it. A Porsche 911 would be my dream car. Unfortunately one of the requirements is actually to accommodate a teenager who's too big to fit in the back of the TT. Therefore any journeys requiring more than 2 people to go anywhere (a lot of them..) end up being in my car. This is just one of the reasons I need something a bit bigger, especially head room wise. Boot space is important as well with constant trips to DIY places picking up large things & going to IKEA, plus at least one or two long trips in England each year. I can't go for an out and out sports car.

I really dislike the Mercedes, think it looks odd and the interior is a bit bling bling. I had an opportunity to get one quite cheap on a friends/family lease scheme recently, so I went and drove one. It was really fast, but I overall it just wasn't for me.

Whilst I love a good french hot hatch, I've had several 172/182s and a Megane F1, so have kind of been there and done that. If I could have an R26.R locked away somewhere with a daily driver too, that'd be nice...

All have been on and promptly off my list. I think they're just getting to the point where the running costs could be fine or disastrous. I'm not too handy with the spanners so don't want to take the risk. Really do like a V8 though, especially some of the older C63s. They sound incredible.

I know that talking about reliability etc then saying I'd really fancy an Alfa Guilia is an oxymoron with their rep, but it seems like the newer ones are a lot more reliable.

Not a fan of most of these. I couldn't see myself in any except the Merc, but the ones at my price point are all Cat S or really high mileage. plus they should have kept the V8!

Not entirely, but thanks anyway. I quite like the Kia Stinger, it was kind of on my list. Will have to seek out a test drive.

So I think I'll look at these:

Alfa Guilia Veloce
340i Touring
S4 Avant (B8.5)
Kia Stinger

You are right but my main issue is a lack of local knowledge. I'd have no idea where to take it whereas I've got a lot of options for work on a BMW

That's interesting because almost everything i've read says otherwise! Have you got/had an M2? What's the alternative at this price point?

Thank you that's encouraging. Have you looked at the Litchfield suspension upgrade/setup? I've read about that transforming the car and making it more comfortable.

I'd agree to a point but if you can find a <50k mileage 2018+ LCI in mineral grey, with DCT, sunroof, HK, electric seats, folding mirrors, adaptive LEDs, full history and on-time RIS for less, send me a link please

I'm not a fan of Minis. Although I've had use of a Cooper S in the past and they are quite fun to drive it's not what I want. Just personal preference, despite impressive performance figures.

The exhaust note has concerned me a bit as well, I'm not sure my neighbours will be very happy. But then I rarely go out at unsociable times so it should be ok.

I am still considering an M4. I do like them a lot but have found there's quite a few compromises to make at my budget. Running costs seem significantly higher too & mixed opinions on the dynamics.

For pure noise, I absolutely love the C63 but they're a bit old hat now & probably a bit expensive to run as you say. They are definitely an option but I feel like for actual 'driving' they're not the last word in dynamics - you buy it for the engine.

Yep - already lined up a car from there and looking at a potential deal on a private sale. Price is on the high side though so I need to negotiate.