So, Pirelli admit that their tyres are crap....
Discussion
"As well as making the changes to help limit the number of pit stops needed, Pirelli is making the revisions to prevent a repeat of the type of failures that hit Lewis Hamilton in Bahrain and Paul di Resta in Spain"
(From http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107421...
so, at the time when they blamed track debris etc, now they are changing the tyres, what a surprise!
So, who here is still going to defend these comedy tyres?
and when can we get back to actual RACING?
(From http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107421...
so, at the time when they blamed track debris etc, now they are changing the tyres, what a surprise!
So, who here is still going to defend these comedy tyres?
and when can we get back to actual RACING?
I am a firm believer that like F1 cars the tyres should be the pinnacle of what is available right now utilising the best technology for a balance between performance and durability.
Give the guys tyres that allow them to exploit the cars performance then we might see some racing. Whilst I accept that pit stops are crucial/strategic in a race doing 4 or 5 stops simply because the tyres are falling apart prevents the guys from driving at 10/10ths which is what we (fans) want.
Give the guys tyres that allow them to exploit the cars performance then we might see some racing. Whilst I accept that pit stops are crucial/strategic in a race doing 4 or 5 stops simply because the tyres are falling apart prevents the guys from driving at 10/10ths which is what we (fans) want.
joewilliams said:
Pirelli have done exactly what they were asked to do.
If you want a tyre that doesn't degrade and can run the entire race, they can do it. But we had those before, and it was s
t.
No they haven't. They were never asked to make tyres that delaminate when they get hot, nor to make tyres that would only complete 20% of race distance.If you want a tyre that doesn't degrade and can run the entire race, they can do it. But we had those before, and it was s
t.If that were the case they wouldn't be changing.
'Hembery told Autosport they never intended there to be four-stop races.
"We want to go back to having two or three-stop races," he added.
He said the problems had been caused by the performance increase of the leading cars, which are a second a lap faster than they were in 2012.
"They have basically been stressing everything too much, and probably we underestimated the performance," Hembery said.'
Unbelievable, just unbelievable.
Once upon a time drivers used to have to be mechanically sympathetic to their car and tyres because they were frail and the driver could easily out-drive them. Then came the era of reliability where the driver was not able to out-drive the car and was able to just put his foot down. There was no finesse. No skill. Traction control and solid tyres nearly distroyed F1.
Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
Galileo said:
Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
Vettel has won the last three world championships, two of which were in the new Pirelli era.Hamilton would have won last year's WDC if it were not for his team's incompetence. Both have scored race wins and podiums recently.
Good to hear they are changing the tyres, I've disliked them since they were introduced but have put up with them but this season the wear has gone too far. I miss watching drivers on the limit.
When drivers are on the radio saying they can not drive any slower or when race engineers are telling their driver not to race another competitor, there has to be something wrong.
Edited by Mini1275 on Tuesday 14th May 18:12
Galileo said:
Once upon a time drivers used to have to be mechanically sympathetic to their car and tyres because they were frail and the driver could easily out-drive them. Then came the era of reliability where the driver was not able to out-drive the car and was able to just put his foot down. There was no finesse. No skill. Traction control and solid tyres nearly distroyed F1.
Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
Agree with this. Sympatico pilots are a valued commodity in the old, OLD days and I love the fact that Pirelli have been able to bring some of that back with the tyres in the past few seasons. Yes, four stopping is a bit too much but I'm sure it'll be sorted out. Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
Dr Z said:
Galileo said:
Once upon a time drivers used to have to be mechanically sympathetic to their car and tyres because they were frail and the driver could easily out-drive them. Then came the era of reliability where the driver was not able to out-drive the car and was able to just put his foot down. There was no finesse. No skill. Traction control and solid tyres nearly distroyed F1.
Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
Agree with this. Sympatico pilots are a valued commodity in the old, OLD days and I love the fact that Pirelli have been able to bring some of that back with the tyres in the past few seasons. Yes, four stopping is a bit too much but I'm sure it'll be sorted out. Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
never heard so much cr4p.
F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of formula racing, not an eco-drive on comedy tyres.
FFS, might just as well put them all in F3 cars, at least we would see some real racing.
Quick wearing is fine. To me the problem is the narrow thermal window these tyres work in, and the way that they degrade if they get too hot or too cold. It means that even a little bit of understeer while tucked up under the rear wing of someone for a couple of laps is enough to overheat them and ruin them. Silly.
joewilliams said:
Pirelli have done exactly what they were asked to do.
If you want a tyre that doesn't degrade and can run the entire race, they can do it. But we had those before, and it was st.
i don't want a tyre that doesn't degrade, or that doesn't wear out, i just want a tyre that doesn't overheat.If you want a tyre that doesn't degrade and can run the entire race, they can do it. But we had those before, and it was s
t.entropy said:
Which begs the question: why did Pirelli feel the need to change construction of the tyres if they were fine last year - for the second half and conservative compounds.
To keep the teams on the back foot.If the tyres were the same as last year the teams could simply run hundreds or thousands of scenarios through from previous data and know exactly how to run their race. With a change in tyres previous data, whilst not useless will not be able to give you the definitive answer on how to run your race.
Its also (partly) to keep the game open. Over the last two years Red Bull have had the best car for the majority of the time, it was kind to tyres, easy to set up and easy to drive. Without changes to the tyres they'd just walk everything.
Hembry is scaremongering a bit with the "do you want us to give RB the edge" and has been somewhat duplicitous in some of the things he's said recently "The tyres (Lewis/Massa) didn't delaminate, it was debris" - oh really ? debris causes all the tread to fall off the carcass does it ?
"We don't have a test car" - they do. "The cars are approaching 2011 levels of downforce when they had EBDs, I don't think anyone could of expected that" - errm, I'd give a fair bet that the teams knew - they don't have wind tunnels running 24x7 for fun. In any case there is enough data about from previous races, tests + Pirellis own data on the current tyres to do race simulations - so they should of known exactly how the tyres would behave. Either they didn't do this or ignored the results.
Its not their fault they were asked to make tyres that would promote racing, by the same token they haven't been exactly honest about their own mistakes and problems.
Galileo said:
Once upon a time drivers used to have to be mechanically sympathetic to their car and tyres because they were frail and the driver could easily out-drive them. Then came the era of reliability where the driver was not able to out-drive the car and was able to just put his foot down. There was no finesse. No skill. Traction control and solid tyres nearly distroyed F1.
Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
but this is just not an accurate reflection of the situation on sunday. the drivers were driving around 6-7 seconds slower than in qualifying. that's nearly 10 % slower.Now Pirelli have been asked to engineer frailty back in. With the result that the heavy footed drivers like Hamilton (and Vettel?) miss out but the mechanically sypathetic, subtle drivers find themselves at the front. Four pitstops might be one too many and something could easily be done to get the balance right in qualifying and the race, but I think its better than the bad old days of the race being a procession.
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