1969 Chevy Camaro SS
Discussion
So I have just done something very impulsive.
CONS
- Doubt it's an original SS.
- Has stupid slapper bars on the rear leaves, so won't go over speedbumps.
- hilariously non street tune: think hot cam, low ratio four speed, weightlifter clutch.
- no AC so will be as hot as Hades, as it is running a 425bhp 7 litre engine from a Corvettes.
- I know nothing about classic US muscle, and am just hoping that bits for these aren't idiotically pricey.
PROS
- at the price could be slightly modified to be a cruiser. So auto box and Aircon.
- my wife didn't kill me when I got home and told her.
- price is good for a non matching numbers, modified car, I think.
- condition is absolutely superb.
PHers: any links to useful resources, forums and clubs for these would be amazing, please! Better still, do some of you own and run similar?
I'd post photos, but PH is broken.
CONS
- Doubt it's an original SS.
- Has stupid slapper bars on the rear leaves, so won't go over speedbumps.
- hilariously non street tune: think hot cam, low ratio four speed, weightlifter clutch.
- no AC so will be as hot as Hades, as it is running a 425bhp 7 litre engine from a Corvettes.
- I know nothing about classic US muscle, and am just hoping that bits for these aren't idiotically pricey.
PROS
- at the price could be slightly modified to be a cruiser. So auto box and Aircon.
- my wife didn't kill me when I got home and told her.
- price is good for a non matching numbers, modified car, I think.
- condition is absolutely superb.
PHers: any links to useful resources, forums and clubs for these would be amazing, please! Better still, do some of you own and run similar?
I'd post photos, but PH is broken.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 25th July 22:56
So the car actually started, being an auction car that is never a given. Actually starts pretty easily - no choke, and electronic ignition. We'll see how that goes when it's cold outside and it hasn't run in a few weeks.
It is making a nasty squealing noise at low revs, but I bet that's something like a fan belt. Frankly this car needs a full service and all belts replaced, just for peace of mind.
Heat soak from the engine is ridiculous. First order of business will be some Aircon, just to take the edge of the cabin heat. It's a cool day today. On a hot summer day, it will be awful. Windows down help, obviously.
Engine is strong and picks up nicely, with that gorgeous, lumpy idle that trick cams on a US V8 give. But it is by no means fast - modern cars have redefined that. Brisk, characterful, but my 17 year old Maserati show it a clean pair of heels.
Steering is as light as a feather with zero feel. Close ratio box is idiotic, as the car is howling along at 3000+ rpm at 50mph.
Clutch is hilariously heavy and gearchange from the box is fine, but not special enough to make me savour it.
Suspension is nicely compliant, but low and the slapper bars make every speedbumps feel like a heart attack.
All of the above makes me think that this car wants an auto box for its application, which is tooling around at low speeds being cool, rather than handling.
It also makes me want to put it on air ride suspension. To me, it rides a little low - I prefer these cars higher than the slammed customs you see.
LHD and that huge bonnet make driving it a matter of great concentration..lack of rhd wing mirror means you can't see if anyone is trying to overtake you, so it needs one fitted.
Seat belts are old over the shoulder with no lap/inertia reel. Rear belts are lap only. Interior vinyl is in good nick, and feels wonderfully period. But if I decide to keep this long term and spend money on it, I'd want a brown saddle leather interior to set off that beautiful green paintwork.
Condition is fabulous, with just a couple of light scratches and swirl marks in the paint, and no sign of rust, anywhere. Underneath looks as clean as a whistle.
I love it, but am under no illusions that if I want this to be a useable London car, some things have to change. Out here in Surrey, where I am today, it's a joy on the road. In congested London traffic, that clutch and manual change, and heat soak, will get old, fast.
Green paint is stunning in the sunshine.
I always thought that the Camaro is a little underwhelming in photos, for some reason, unlike the Mustang. This is definitely true now that I own one. In the metal, it's sheer presence, and beautiful curves, are a knockout.
It is making a nasty squealing noise at low revs, but I bet that's something like a fan belt. Frankly this car needs a full service and all belts replaced, just for peace of mind.
Heat soak from the engine is ridiculous. First order of business will be some Aircon, just to take the edge of the cabin heat. It's a cool day today. On a hot summer day, it will be awful. Windows down help, obviously.
Engine is strong and picks up nicely, with that gorgeous, lumpy idle that trick cams on a US V8 give. But it is by no means fast - modern cars have redefined that. Brisk, characterful, but my 17 year old Maserati show it a clean pair of heels.
Steering is as light as a feather with zero feel. Close ratio box is idiotic, as the car is howling along at 3000+ rpm at 50mph.
Clutch is hilariously heavy and gearchange from the box is fine, but not special enough to make me savour it.
Suspension is nicely compliant, but low and the slapper bars make every speedbumps feel like a heart attack.
All of the above makes me think that this car wants an auto box for its application, which is tooling around at low speeds being cool, rather than handling.
It also makes me want to put it on air ride suspension. To me, it rides a little low - I prefer these cars higher than the slammed customs you see.
LHD and that huge bonnet make driving it a matter of great concentration..lack of rhd wing mirror means you can't see if anyone is trying to overtake you, so it needs one fitted.
Seat belts are old over the shoulder with no lap/inertia reel. Rear belts are lap only. Interior vinyl is in good nick, and feels wonderfully period. But if I decide to keep this long term and spend money on it, I'd want a brown saddle leather interior to set off that beautiful green paintwork.
Condition is fabulous, with just a couple of light scratches and swirl marks in the paint, and no sign of rust, anywhere. Underneath looks as clean as a whistle.
I love it, but am under no illusions that if I want this to be a useable London car, some things have to change. Out here in Surrey, where I am today, it's a joy on the road. In congested London traffic, that clutch and manual change, and heat soak, will get old, fast.
Green paint is stunning in the sunshine.
I always thought that the Camaro is a little underwhelming in photos, for some reason, unlike the Mustang. This is definitely true now that I own one. In the metal, it's sheer presence, and beautiful curves, are a knockout.
So I have got round to opening the sealed and ancient. Pack of docs that came with the car. I may have to rethink chopping it about.
Turns out that it is an original, matching numbers big block '69 SS, that then went off for a dealer conversion to 427, as Chevy weren't yet doing the 427. So it has a same year Corvette 427 in it. It was restored in 1993 to that original spec, having been a dealer rece car, except that it had been yellow from the factory. Since then, I think the electronic ignition is the only non-period mod.
I learned this from a bunch of old magazines (in which the car was featured) from the late 90 and early 00s, included in a pile of documents. It was also in the Cartier Style & Luxe concourse in 2000 in it's current spec, except for the ignition.
It was has done less than 1000 miles between 2005 and 2017, when it was presumably dry stored as it is in perfect cosmetic condition. Engine was rebuilt in 1996, and has done less than 5000 miles since then, but probably needs an overhaul.
This may all need a rethink, as I suspect that if I want to hack a Camaro up to be a restomod, it needs to be a mongrel, not this one?
Turns out that it is an original, matching numbers big block '69 SS, that then went off for a dealer conversion to 427, as Chevy weren't yet doing the 427. So it has a same year Corvette 427 in it. It was restored in 1993 to that original spec, having been a dealer rece car, except that it had been yellow from the factory. Since then, I think the electronic ignition is the only non-period mod.
I learned this from a bunch of old magazines (in which the car was featured) from the late 90 and early 00s, included in a pile of documents. It was also in the Cartier Style & Luxe concourse in 2000 in it's current spec, except for the ignition.
It was has done less than 1000 miles between 2005 and 2017, when it was presumably dry stored as it is in perfect cosmetic condition. Engine was rebuilt in 1996, and has done less than 5000 miles since then, but probably needs an overhaul.
This may all need a rethink, as I suspect that if I want to hack a Camaro up to be a restomod, it needs to be a mongrel, not this one?
Edited by Harry Flashman on Sunday 23 July 22:05
-Cappo- said:
Harry Flashman said:
Mike, any ideas for decent folk who can look after these cars, in SW London or Surrey?
Jump on the 'Why so High?" thread, it's become a general Yank chat thread and what the main protagonists on there don't know, you won't need to know! I just spoke to the lovely man at RPM, who built it. It is indeed a clone of a COPO car, so has no intrinsically high value as original. He's retiring, else he would have loved to have had it back for servicing
Just spoke to Hot Rod Technologies, not far from me, and they build loads of cars, including modernised classics. They have lots of London customers, so my requests sounded pretty standard.
So EFi for easy starting in all weathers, auto box or lighter clutch, Aircon, losing the slapper bars and a slight lift on the rear (it sits a touch low to my eyes, maybe an inch), engine bay heat management are my priorities. It doesn't have to handle or be overbraked as it's for cruising around with kids in, not racing.
I suspect that will get it where I want it to be in terms of driveability. Last will be an interior retrim in brown leather to set off the green paint, and inertia reel seatbelts and Isofix in the back for kids' seats.
I have provisionally booked the car in for October to do everything but the interior over winter, subject to agreeing a job quote.
I want a car that looks like a classic, sounds like a classic, and drives like a classic - but is just a bit easier to live with.
So I am finding more out about the car now.
RPM spent 14 months building it in 1993/4. Amazingly, the car appears to have done less than 10,000 miles since then, with a long period of (clearly indoor and humidity free) storage from 2005 to 2019amd very limited use after.
- 1969 Corvette 427 engine, balanced and rebuilt
- Crane Street/strip mild competition hydraulic roller cam
- steel original cowl induction bonnet, correctly set up for cold induction
- Edelbrock Torker manifold
- Holley 750cfm four barrel carb
- Hooker Competition Plus headers, aluminium sprayed (I am guessing ceramic would be better)
- MSD 6AL electronic ignition
- Muncie M21 box rebuilt
- Positraction 12 bolt rear axle with 3.07 ratio
- heavy duty radiator
- extra oil cooler
- SPAX adjustable dampers with poly-graphite bushes throughout
- power steering and brakes
All this stuff still looks like new. The car's last magazine feature was in 2004, 11 years after it was built.
I am hoping that:
- clutches have come a bit of a way, and something lighter would be easy to fit.
- a Vintage Aircon system can be made to fit
- EFi can fit: someone on the general American thread mentioned that the higher inlet manifold may make that tough.
This last one is a fun read. This Camaro won the test over the Mustang and Challenger in terms of driveability and performance. They state that the Challenger's clutch is just too heavy (among other issues). Given that the Chevy's clutch is an absolute sod by modern standards, I dread to think what the Dodge was like! But they state that the narrow tyres on the Camaro aren't great for the power it has - modern rubber was going to happen anyway, as these could well be absolutely ancient given the minimal mileage the car has done!
RPM spent 14 months building it in 1993/4. Amazingly, the car appears to have done less than 10,000 miles since then, with a long period of (clearly indoor and humidity free) storage from 2005 to 2019amd very limited use after.
- 1969 Corvette 427 engine, balanced and rebuilt
- Crane Street/strip mild competition hydraulic roller cam
- steel original cowl induction bonnet, correctly set up for cold induction
- Edelbrock Torker manifold
- Holley 750cfm four barrel carb
- Hooker Competition Plus headers, aluminium sprayed (I am guessing ceramic would be better)
- MSD 6AL electronic ignition
- Muncie M21 box rebuilt
- Positraction 12 bolt rear axle with 3.07 ratio
- heavy duty radiator
- extra oil cooler
- SPAX adjustable dampers with poly-graphite bushes throughout
- power steering and brakes
All this stuff still looks like new. The car's last magazine feature was in 2004, 11 years after it was built.
I am hoping that:
- clutches have come a bit of a way, and something lighter would be easy to fit.
- a Vintage Aircon system can be made to fit
- EFi can fit: someone on the general American thread mentioned that the higher inlet manifold may make that tough.
This last one is a fun read. This Camaro won the test over the Mustang and Challenger in terms of driveability and performance. They state that the Challenger's clutch is just too heavy (among other issues). Given that the Chevy's clutch is an absolute sod by modern standards, I dread to think what the Dodge was like! But they state that the narrow tyres on the Camaro aren't great for the power it has - modern rubber was going to happen anyway, as these could well be absolutely ancient given the minimal mileage the car has done!
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 25th July 23:04
Apart from paint on one of the wheels slightly flaking, it just doesn't look, inside, underneath, outside or in the engine bay any different to how it looks in these magazine articles, going back to 1994. Someone has absolutely loved this car.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Tuesday 25th July 23:03
wolfracesonic said:
Do you have the original broadcast sheet for the car? The reason I ask is, you said earlier it’s an original big block car and at the time, I believe the only way dealers could order these cars with a big block engine was to go down the COPO route, so if it’s first owner did receive it with a big block, it may be an original COPO car. This and the FF are my favourite readers cars at the minute; what are Camaros like at a tip run
I don't. Pretty sure it's a clone, probably not actually an original SS either! Yup, the Holley or Fitech EFi seem to be the methods.
I think Aircon will be Vintage Air, who do kits for classic muscle cars. Well-known route.
I think I am going to go for a more modern auto box for London driving, one that allows holding iof gears. The short shift Muncie isn't a particularly desirable box, and frankly a clutchless car would suit my needs better. As it's not a terribly original car, I don't feel bad about converting it to auto if the box used actually enhances the drive. This means not using the old 3 speed box fitted in period.
I think Aircon will be Vintage Air, who do kits for classic muscle cars. Well-known route.
I think I am going to go for a more modern auto box for London driving, one that allows holding iof gears. The short shift Muncie isn't a particularly desirable box, and frankly a clutchless car would suit my needs better. As it's not a terribly original car, I don't feel bad about converting it to auto if the box used actually enhances the drive. This means not using the old 3 speed box fitted in period.
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