Discussion
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Surely the E39 was the best BMW of the last thirty years, blending the traditional charms and draws with a modern design that makes it still feel current after 25 years. More practical than the 6 and 7 series’, though don’t get me wrong I love the E38 too. E39 is better than the E36/E46 being bigger and more practical, and with a more special feel. The touring versions are probably all the car most people would need! Plus probably the greatest range of engines right through from the best of the straight sixes up to the V8, and not spoiled by measly 4-pots (well not in the U.K. market anyway). The Alpina versions as well, I’d have over the M5 as I find them more exquisite and rare, but nonetheless the M5 is a fine enough beast, and a leap over the previous generation, but far more simple, reliable and better than the clumsy and over-done V10 that followed…
Ready to get my coat….
This man is correct. Ready to get my coat….
A B10 V8S touring would be my answer to 'one car for the rest of your life'.
Too bad there's only 4 RHD
Edited by Riek on Saturday 6th January 17:36
Edited by Riek on Saturday 6th January 17:37
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Surely the E39 was the best BMW of the last thirty years, blending the traditional charms and draws with a modern design that makes it still feel current after 25 years. More practical than the 6 and 7 series’, though don’t get me wrong I love the E38 too. E39 is better than the E36/E46 being bigger and more practical, and with a more special feel. The touring versions are probably all the car most people would need! Plus probably the greatest range of engines right through from the best of the straight sixes up to the V8, and not spoiled by measly 4-pots (well not in the U.K. market anyway). The Alpina versions as well, I’d have over the M5 as I find them more exquisite and rare, but nonetheless the M5 is a fine enough beast, and a leap over the previous generation, but far more simple, reliable and better than the clumsy and over-done V10 that followed…
Ready to get my coat….
Nope; you're bang on...Ready to get my coat….
In touring guise; the E39 is hard to beat IMO. If they had made an E39 M5 Touring that would have been the absolute pinnacle I reckon...
The B10 V8 touring is as good as it gets (unless you get Barry to make you an E39 M5 Touring)
The E38 is the best looking 7 series BMW ever made, SWB or LWB; it's lines are perfection really...
The E61 M5 Touring, for me, would be my own ultimate Q car
MitchT said:
I've always just got on well with BMWs - they just seemt to "fit", if that makes sense. It's like finding a brand of shoes that just happen to be the right shape for your feet and take no breaking in whatseoever. You just slide in and everything just works the way you expect and you feel like you've already been there for ages. No cult like following here though - I really am not keen on the styling of the current crop of BMWs. For me the F32 4 Series was the last BMW that I really loved, styling wise.
Same with me; until recently there’s been a familiarity that I’ve always liked so keep buying them. They were also the last hold outs for six cylinder engines in normal cars.d_a_n1979 said:
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Surely the E39 was the best BMW of the last thirty years, blending the traditional charms and draws with a modern design that makes it still feel current after 25 years. More practical than the 6 and 7 series’, though don’t get me wrong I love the E38 too. E39 is better than the E36/E46 being bigger and more practical, and with a more special feel. The touring versions are probably all the car most people would need! Plus probably the greatest range of engines right through from the best of the straight sixes up to the V8, and not spoiled by measly 4-pots (well not in the U.K. market anyway). The Alpina versions as well, I’d have over the M5 as I find them more exquisite and rare, but nonetheless the M5 is a fine enough beast, and a leap over the previous generation, but far more simple, reliable and better than the clumsy and over-done V10 that followed…
Ready to get my coat….
Nope; you're bang on...Ready to get my coat….
In touring guise; the E39 is hard to beat IMO. If they had made an E39 M5 Touring that would have been the absolute pinnacle I reckon...
The B10 V8 touring is as good as it gets (unless you get Barry to make you an E39 M5 Touring)
The E38 is the best looking 7 series BMW ever made, SWB or LWB; it's lines are perfection really...
The E61 M5 Touring, for me, would be my own ultimate Q car
In E61 terms, I’d take a 550i Touring over the M5. V10’s and all that are nice, but isn’t that engine in that car a bit of a luxury too far… sure the M is more ‘sorted’ than an old man spec 50i or even an M-sport 50i.
I’m on my 3rd BMW. I looked at loads of options prior to my current one thinking I fancied a change of brand but nothing else really gripped me.
I think Mercedes probably do nicer interiors or at least more stylised but for me I feel at home in a BMW I’m pretty sure my next car whenever that is will be a BMW too.
I think Mercedes probably do nicer interiors or at least more stylised but for me I feel at home in a BMW I’m pretty sure my next car whenever that is will be a BMW too.
In 2 days time it will be 19 years since I bought my first BMW and I haven't been without one since!
I just wish I had discovered 6 cylinder petrol models before 2014.
I grew up with RWD and manual gearboxes and hardly anyone else made cars like that. But my current 2 are getting on now (2005 and 2006) because I'm not a fan of turbocharged engines, so it looks like they'll be staying!
I just wish I had discovered 6 cylinder petrol models before 2014.
I grew up with RWD and manual gearboxes and hardly anyone else made cars like that. But my current 2 are getting on now (2005 and 2006) because I'm not a fan of turbocharged engines, so it looks like they'll be staying!
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Surely the E39 was the best BMW of the last thirty years, blending the traditional charms and draws with a modern design that makes it still feel current after 25 years. More practical than the 6 and 7 series’, though don’t get me wrong I love the E38 too. E39 is better than the E36/E46 being bigger and more practical, and with a more special feel. The touring versions are probably all the car most people would need! Plus probably the greatest range of engines right through from the best of the straight sixes up to the V8, and not spoiled by measly 4-pots (well not in the U.K. market anyway). The Alpina versions as well, I’d have over the M5 as I find them more exquisite and rare, but nonetheless the M5 is a fine enough beast, and a leap over the previous generation, but far more simple, reliable and better than the clumsy and over-done V10 that followed…
Ready to get my coat….
Nope; you're bang on...Ready to get my coat….
In touring guise; the E39 is hard to beat IMO. If they had made an E39 M5 Touring that would have been the absolute pinnacle I reckon...
The B10 V8 touring is as good as it gets (unless you get Barry to make you an E39 M5 Touring)
The E38 is the best looking 7 series BMW ever made, SWB or LWB; it's lines are perfection really...
The E61 M5 Touring, for me, would be my own ultimate Q car
In E61 terms, I’d take a 550i Touring over the M5. V10’s and all that are nice, but isn’t that engine in that car a bit of a luxury too far… sure the M is more ‘sorted’ than an old man spec 50i or even an M-sport 50i.
If my Japanese import 540i Sport saloon was a touring Sam; I'd still have it! That would have been perfect but they rarely leave Japan and any UK car now will be too much of a job trying to sort the rust etc
But there is something about the E61 M5 Touring & that V10 - if someone like Sreten can make his V10 as solid & reliable as it is; then I'd say it's very much doable on any other BMW V10
Court_S said:
MitchT said:
I've always just got on well with BMWs - they just seemt to "fit", if that makes sense. It's like finding a brand of shoes that just happen to be the right shape for your feet and take no breaking in whatseoever. You just slide in and everything just works the way you expect and you feel like you've already been there for ages. No cult like following here though - I really am not keen on the styling of the current crop of BMWs. For me the F32 4 Series was the last BMW that I really loved, styling wise.
Same with me; until recently there’s been a familiarity that I’ve always liked so keep buying them. They were also the last hold outs for six cylinder engines in normal cars.I'll admit that I do actually rather like the current range (FWD-based models excluded), I've lost count of the number of G20 3er's I've driven now and there's still a pleasing BMW-ness to them. Not as fun to drive as my E82 admittedly but miles ahead of Audi based on some time driving a new A4... and in M340i form gives you what I consider to be far and away the best powertrain you can buy in that class of car now- especially since Mercedes have gone all-in on the 2.0 four pot.
I even quite like the iX having spent quite a bit of time as a passenger in one.
Edited by Sofa on Saturday 6th January 22:05
MitchT said:
I've always just got on well with BMWs - they just seemt to "fit", if that makes sense. It's like finding a brand of shoes that just happen to be the right shape for your feet and take no breaking in whatseoever. You just slide in and everything just works the way you expect and you feel like you've already been there for ages. No cult like following here though - I really am not keen on the styling of the current crop of BMWs. For me the F32 4 Series was the last BMW that I really loved, styling wise.
This is the best summary for me as well, they just seem to be consistent and I know what I am getting when I looked at getting one each time. I like the iDrive system too, and although mine is just a shopping trolly with a big engine (M140i), when I got it, I never considered a Golf R/GTi, i30N, S3 because I knew what I was getting with a BMW.As somebody stated earlier, you get it or you don't and I wouldn't be worried if you didn't because the current crop all look pretty awful compared to the older cars!
Sofa said:
Me too, my Dad got an E90 320d company car when I was a kid and there's been at least 1 BMW on their driveway ever since so I've always been in/around them- the warm orange glow of an older BMW gauge cluster is a familiar and pleasing sight. Add in the fact that a 6-cylinder was pretty much a 'must have' when I was shopping for my current car and something Bavarian with a straight-6 was pretty much inevitable. (Admittedly, some of my desire for a 6-cylinder may have stemmed from the fact I am a bit of a BMW fanboy...)
I'll admit that I do actually rather like the current range (FWD-based models excluded), I've lost count of the number of G20 3er's I've driven now and there's still a pleasing BMW-ness to them. Not as fun to drive as my E82 admittedly but miles ahead of Audi based on some time driving a new A4... and in M340i form gives you what I consider to be far and away the best powertrain you can buy in that class of car now- especially since Mercedes have gone all-in on the 2.0 four pot.
I even quite like the iX having spent quite a bit of time as a passenger in one.
I think it started with a burgundy E36 for me…a friend’s mum in primary school had one and I remember sitting in the front and it felt like a fighter heft compared to my parents cars; you felt so low with the high transmission tunnel and angled dash. I'll admit that I do actually rather like the current range (FWD-based models excluded), I've lost count of the number of G20 3er's I've driven now and there's still a pleasing BMW-ness to them. Not as fun to drive as my E82 admittedly but miles ahead of Audi based on some time driving a new A4... and in M340i form gives you what I consider to be far and away the best powertrain you can buy in that class of car now- especially since Mercedes have gone all-in on the 2.0 four pot.
I even quite like the iX having spent quite a bit of time as a passenger in one.
Edited by Sofa on Saturday 6th January 22:05
After that a family member had a few including a 323 cab that I had a few driving lessons in, an E38 735 that I was allowed to drive a few times and an X3 3.0 sport.
I have owned 3 x e36s, an e30, an e21, an f30, and 2 e39s, but don't necessarily call myself a BMW fanboy.
Having said that in general the driving dynamics are pretty good & don't have too many distractions in operation, which is what I like.
Best car of all was an e39 530 Sport which I had fitted with LPG, with full tanks it had a total range of over 600 miles & you always arrived having enjoyed the car & felt comfortable.
Having said that in general the driving dynamics are pretty good & don't have too many distractions in operation, which is what I like.
Best car of all was an e39 530 Sport which I had fitted with LPG, with full tanks it had a total range of over 600 miles & you always arrived having enjoyed the car & felt comfortable.
d_a_n1979 said:
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Surely the E39 was the best BMW of the last thirty years, blending the traditional charms and draws with a modern design that makes it still feel current after 25 years. More practical than the 6 and 7 series’, though don’t get me wrong I love the E38 too. E39 is better than the E36/E46 being bigger and more practical, and with a more special feel. The touring versions are probably all the car most people would need! Plus probably the greatest range of engines right through from the best of the straight sixes up to the V8, and not spoiled by measly 4-pots (well not in the U.K. market anyway). The Alpina versions as well, I’d have over the M5 as I find them more exquisite and rare, but nonetheless the M5 is a fine enough beast, and a leap over the previous generation, but far more simple, reliable and better than the clumsy and over-done V10 that followed…
Ready to get my coat….
Nope; you're bang on...Ready to get my coat….
In touring guise; the E39 is hard to beat IMO. If they had made an E39 M5 Touring that would have been the absolute pinnacle I reckon...
The B10 V8 touring is as good as it gets (unless you get Barry to make you an E39 M5 Touring)
The E38 is the best looking 7 series BMW ever made, SWB or LWB; it's lines are perfection really...
The E61 M5 Touring, for me, would be my own ultimate Q car
In E61 terms, I’d take a 550i Touring over the M5. V10’s and all that are nice, but isn’t that engine in that car a bit of a luxury too far… sure the M is more ‘sorted’ than an old man spec 50i or even an M-sport 50i.
If my Japanese import 540i Sport saloon was a touring Sam; I'd still have it! That would have been perfect but they rarely leave Japan and any UK car now will be too much of a job trying to sort the rust etc
But there is something about the E61 M5 Touring & that V10 - if someone like Sreten can make his V10 as solid & reliable as it is; then I'd say it's very much doable on any other BMW V10
There’s a tidy looking 540i saloon in the next Anglia sale, but it’s a U.K. supplied model. Nothing scary in mot history either, and no reserve too!
Don’t really get the cult followings of any brand always seems really weird to me personally.
My M2 offers a sweet spot for me of a car that is practical as my daily, is special enough, loads of fun and I can take it to trackdays and hammer it to my hearts content without worrying about money.
Im definitely not a BMW fanboy as have no interest in anything pre F series. Find the latest G series cars are brilliant but and generally best in class or top 3.
If you find BMW cult like wait till you stumble upon the Tesla nutters telling you to get a Model 3 Performance instead of a Ferrari SF90.
My M2 offers a sweet spot for me of a car that is practical as my daily, is special enough, loads of fun and I can take it to trackdays and hammer it to my hearts content without worrying about money.
Im definitely not a BMW fanboy as have no interest in anything pre F series. Find the latest G series cars are brilliant but and generally best in class or top 3.
If you find BMW cult like wait till you stumble upon the Tesla nutters telling you to get a Model 3 Performance instead of a Ferrari SF90.
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
Surely the E39 was the best BMW of the last thirty years, blending the traditional charms and draws with a modern design that makes it still feel current after 25 years. More practical than the 6 and 7 series’, though don’t get me wrong I love the E38 too. E39 is better than the E36/E46 being bigger and more practical, and with a more special feel. The touring versions are probably all the car most people would need! Plus probably the greatest range of engines right through from the best of the straight sixes up to the V8, and not spoiled by measly 4-pots (well not in the U.K. market anyway). The Alpina versions as well, I’d have over the M5 as I find them more exquisite and rare, but nonetheless the M5 is a fine enough beast, and a leap over the previous generation, but far more simple, reliable and better than the clumsy and over-done V10 that followed…
Ready to get my coat….
Nope; you're bang on...Ready to get my coat….
In touring guise; the E39 is hard to beat IMO. If they had made an E39 M5 Touring that would have been the absolute pinnacle I reckon...
The B10 V8 touring is as good as it gets (unless you get Barry to make you an E39 M5 Touring)
The E38 is the best looking 7 series BMW ever made, SWB or LWB; it's lines are perfection really...
The E61 M5 Touring, for me, would be my own ultimate Q car
In E61 terms, I’d take a 550i Touring over the M5. V10’s and all that are nice, but isn’t that engine in that car a bit of a luxury too far… sure the M is more ‘sorted’ than an old man spec 50i or even an M-sport 50i.
If my Japanese import 540i Sport saloon was a touring Sam; I'd still have it! That would have been perfect but they rarely leave Japan and any UK car now will be too much of a job trying to sort the rust etc
But there is something about the E61 M5 Touring & that V10 - if someone like Sreten can make his V10 as solid & reliable as it is; then I'd say it's very much doable on any other BMW V10
There’s a tidy looking 540i saloon in the next Anglia sale, but it’s a U.K. supplied model. Nothing scary in mot history either, and no reserve too!
I've been with Chris Knott for years with UK cars and Japanese imports; the only thing I do 'more of' with a Japanese import is get an agreed value on it ASAP, as they are worth more than their UK counterpart due to the overall condition and low mileage and rarity on these shores
Both my previous E39 530i Sport Touring (agreed value of £10k) and 540i Sport saloon (agreed value of £10k also) had that extra cover - just provided lots of detailed pictures and my Readers Cars thread on them and they didn't hesitate etc
There are some decent UK examples out there still; but the main thing that will always worry me is their bodywork, at the age they're at now, they do like to fizz in the rain. Can soon be sorted with a good strip down and underseal etc
But the Japanese import will always be a much better platform as they've never seen salted roads etc
They can have weird gadgets fitted (easy to remove); cluster more than likely in KM still - easy enough to remove and send off to Keith at AK Speedo in Stirling and he'll upgrade it/fix it/change it to MPH etc, the paintwork can be a bit flat due to the acid rain; generally polishes out and more than likely it'll need the cooling system overhauled (as would a UK car TBH) and the suspension/brakes overhauled
All easy enough to do and parts are easy to source; due diligence is key obviously
E-bmw said:
I have owned 3 x e36s, an e30, an e21, an f30, and 2 e39s, but don't necessarily call myself a BMW fanboy.
Having said that in general the driving dynamics are pretty good & don't have too many distractions in operation, which is what I like.
Best car of all was an e39 530 Sport which I had fitted with LPG, with full tanks it had a total range of over 600 miles & you always arrived having enjoyed the car & felt comfortable.
Agree re the E39; go anywhere in them and feel as comfy getting out once you've landed as you did just getting in and setting off Having said that in general the driving dynamics are pretty good & don't have too many distractions in operation, which is what I like.
Best car of all was an e39 530 Sport which I had fitted with LPG, with full tanks it had a total range of over 600 miles & you always arrived having enjoyed the car & felt comfortable.
I do like BMWs a lot; they're my 'comfort zone' TBH
But there are a lot of other cars out there I'd love to try one day
I always liked BMW's to drive and have had quite a few.
But......
Some of the design and build quality issues are just ridiculous. I was a self employed mechanic for years and watched BMW make the same mistakes again and again. Plastic timing chain guides are one example. They were crap 20 years ago and they still are.
After 20 years plus, they still can't make an engine oil tight. That goes for all German makes to be fair, yet the Japanese seemingly can.
I still have mates in the trade, a few with Sytner group so we laugh about all the latest dramas. Water pumps and horns are the common failure points on current models along with 330e differentials. The latest four cyl petrol has a problem where a plastic coolant pipe shears and dumps all the coolant, Ford Ecoboost style and with similar catastrophic results. 8 Series window regulators failing - that's not a cheap car (well, not cheap to buy).
They seem to be a nice car but with a veneer of quality over something not overly well engineered. A pity as they used to be pretty good.
But......
Some of the design and build quality issues are just ridiculous. I was a self employed mechanic for years and watched BMW make the same mistakes again and again. Plastic timing chain guides are one example. They were crap 20 years ago and they still are.
After 20 years plus, they still can't make an engine oil tight. That goes for all German makes to be fair, yet the Japanese seemingly can.
I still have mates in the trade, a few with Sytner group so we laugh about all the latest dramas. Water pumps and horns are the common failure points on current models along with 330e differentials. The latest four cyl petrol has a problem where a plastic coolant pipe shears and dumps all the coolant, Ford Ecoboost style and with similar catastrophic results. 8 Series window regulators failing - that's not a cheap car (well, not cheap to buy).
They seem to be a nice car but with a veneer of quality over something not overly well engineered. A pity as they used to be pretty good.
For me they just offered what I was looking for l, we had 5 of them, currently one on the drive.
They offered RWD, decent 6 cyl engines and an interior that is well built with good materials and more choice in terms of leather combinations, etc.
We had Mercedes too and it just didn’t feel as well put together, more jittery drive, just not as tight.
What other options are there for RWD for everyday car?
These days AWD seems to há taking off… in my view I don’t understand the need to use more fuel/energy by driving 2 extra wheels that are not needed on everyday driving.
Also with electrification the engine/engineering part of the brands will dilute and it will become a styling and interior design competition only.
You are probably continue to associate upmarket interiors with the traditional premium brands but it will reach a point where a Mercedes or BMW will have lost the premium feel.
Tesla interiors are for a complete different crowd, niche but BYD and others are in the right path to take some customers away.
I like the new 5 or i5 and I think BMW was clever to offer a transition platform that can be had with an electric motor or conventional petrol. Might not be financially the best for them but good to keep a hold of the brand loyalty, etc.
They offered RWD, decent 6 cyl engines and an interior that is well built with good materials and more choice in terms of leather combinations, etc.
We had Mercedes too and it just didn’t feel as well put together, more jittery drive, just not as tight.
What other options are there for RWD for everyday car?
These days AWD seems to há taking off… in my view I don’t understand the need to use more fuel/energy by driving 2 extra wheels that are not needed on everyday driving.
Also with electrification the engine/engineering part of the brands will dilute and it will become a styling and interior design competition only.
You are probably continue to associate upmarket interiors with the traditional premium brands but it will reach a point where a Mercedes or BMW will have lost the premium feel.
Tesla interiors are for a complete different crowd, niche but BYD and others are in the right path to take some customers away.
I like the new 5 or i5 and I think BMW was clever to offer a transition platform that can be had with an electric motor or conventional petrol. Might not be financially the best for them but good to keep a hold of the brand loyalty, etc.
I-am-the-reverend said:
I always liked BMW's to drive and have had quite a few.
But......
After 20 years plus, they still can't make an engine oil tight. That goes for all German makes to be fair, yet the Japanese seemingly can.
It’s not been my experience, all 5 of them were fine no oil leaks or abnormal consumption. One took to 185k miles too so not all new cars.But......
After 20 years plus, they still can't make an engine oil tight. That goes for all German makes to be fair, yet the Japanese seemingly can.
Same can’t be said about my VAG cars.
You are right where some parts could be engineered to last longer but then again the cars are not designed to last a lifetime. They are designed to last probably around 5-7 years and 100k miles as they want the customer to get into a new one sooner than every 10 years. 2nd cars are not their concern or any other manufacturer concern. Even Toyota/Honda cut costs where they can these days.
We've had three in succession, all 3 series tourings (E46, E91 and F31) still own the latter two. All have been 6 cylinder, first one petrol 2.5 the second two 3.0 diesel.
Main factor for me was how great they've been with our family versatility wise. All have been reliable, and all three have driven really nicely. We've used all 3 on many two week trips to south west France, easily cover 2,000 to 3,000 miles in a couple of weeks without fuss.
Only thing I was wary of was the spec, especially later cars - took well over 3 months to find the "right" F31 for us. There are a lot out there with no options on, makes them feel a bit less nice.
Main factor for me was how great they've been with our family versatility wise. All have been reliable, and all three have driven really nicely. We've used all 3 on many two week trips to south west France, easily cover 2,000 to 3,000 miles in a couple of weeks without fuss.
Only thing I was wary of was the spec, especially later cars - took well over 3 months to find the "right" F31 for us. There are a lot out there with no options on, makes them feel a bit less nice.
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