Discussion
d_a_n1979 said:
The Conflated Outlier said:
The N47 was never fully 'cured' of the chain problems. Plenty of 2013 and 2014 cars with issues. A 2013 520d Touring springs to mind - at 69k it was still quiet but the owner had it replaced anyway. Just as well because it was absolutely f
ked and the tensioner fully extended.
The B47 arrived in late 2014 in the F10 but some retained the N47 into 2015 such as the 3 and 4 Series. I have a feeling the 518d and maybe 520dED had the N47 into 2015.
You can tell instantly from looking under the bonnet as the B47 has a much smaller engine cover. The B47 isn't perfect but they are so much better than the N47 - why bother with the engine that is known to be a drama?
There is the N47T where they revised a few things IIRC and that got the new tensionerked and the tensioner fully extended. The B47 arrived in late 2014 in the F10 but some retained the N47 into 2015 such as the 3 and 4 Series. I have a feeling the 518d and maybe 520dED had the N47 into 2015.
You can tell instantly from looking under the bonnet as the B47 has a much smaller engine cover. The B47 isn't perfect but they are so much better than the N47 - why bother with the engine that is known to be a drama?
Still not infallible IIRC but plenty of them out there with decent mileage and no issues
Time for a general rant......
The subject of chains is like a stuck record I've heard for decades with Jags, BMWs and VAGs. The level of risk aversion these days it's unbelievable. I bought my 330d knowing exactly what issues it's famous for on the internet, but I know the internet is largely full of carp and just took a risk like you should. There are no guarantees with any car, but a lot of people seem to need a ton of reassurance from strangers before committing themselves, which is just bizarre to me.
It doesn't matter how many times you say "Maintenance is key", another 5000 "Mine was fine up to 355,000 miles" reports are required.
The N47 must be about the most common BMW engine out there. Pretty much every BMW that drives past me is 1, 2, 3 or 5 20d, and there are 100s of 1000s of 20ds driving around perfectly fine. Is that not reassurance enough for people?
If the chains need doing at some point into your ownership, so what, just deal with it. Don't ignore the early signs of rattle and just get it fixed. It's not rocket science.
End of rant.
The Conflated Outlier said:
P700DEE said:
Ran my 2012 F11 for 200k miles. Only serviced at 20k intervals which was pretty much 10-11 months intervals. My indy advised leaving unless it got noisey. Chains were inspected at 110K miles when the DMF was replaced.
So they removed the cam cover, dropped the sub frame, removed the sump and rear timing case but didn't fit new chains?OK...
rottenegg said:
d_a_n1979 said:
The Conflated Outlier said:
The N47 was never fully 'cured' of the chain problems. Plenty of 2013 and 2014 cars with issues. A 2013 520d Touring springs to mind - at 69k it was still quiet but the owner had it replaced anyway. Just as well because it was absolutely fked and the tensioner fully extended.
The B47 arrived in late 2014 in the F10 but some retained the N47 into 2015 such as the 3 and 4 Series. I have a feeling the 518d and maybe 520dED had the N47 into 2015.
You can tell instantly from looking under the bonnet as the B47 has a much smaller engine cover. The B47 isn't perfect but they are so much better than the N47 - why bother with the engine that is known to be a drama?
There is the N47T where they revised a few things IIRC and that got the new tensionerked and the tensioner fully extended. The B47 arrived in late 2014 in the F10 but some retained the N47 into 2015 such as the 3 and 4 Series. I have a feeling the 518d and maybe 520dED had the N47 into 2015.
You can tell instantly from looking under the bonnet as the B47 has a much smaller engine cover. The B47 isn't perfect but they are so much better than the N47 - why bother with the engine that is known to be a drama?
Still not infallible IIRC but plenty of them out there with decent mileage and no issues
Time for a general rant......
The subject of chains is like a stuck record I've heard for decades with Jags, BMWs and VAGs. The level of risk aversion these days it's unbelievable. I bought my 330d knowing exactly what issues it's famous for on the internet, but I know the internet is largely full of carp and just took a risk like you should. There are no guarantees with any car, but a lot of people seem to need a ton of reassurance from strangers before committing themselves, which is just bizarre to me.
It doesn't matter how many times you say "Maintenance is key", another 5000 "Mine was fine up to 355,000 miles" reports are required.
The N47 must be about the most common BMW engine out there. Pretty much every BMW that drives past me is 1, 2, 3 or 5 20d, and there are 100s of 1000s of 20ds driving around perfectly fine. Is that not reassurance enough for people?
If the chains need doing at some point into your ownership, so what, just deal with it. Don't ignore the early signs of rattle and just get it fixed. It's not rocket science.
End of rant.
It's not to do with the turbo from my reading; but then again this is the tinterwebs so don't quote me on that
Agree with what you've said though; the only news you hear re the 20d is the negative news and you get the likes of companies like ADC in Manchester, who are well respected, but they pass out the blurb all the time that these engines must have their chains changed at 100k miles otherwise as soon as you hit 100001, they're gonna go pop...
It's wise for them; they get the business. But a lot of folk take that as gospel and then pass it down the line...
Like you've said; there are so many of these engines out there still running with high miles and little to no issues; but no ones goes off that, they all go off the negative etc
rottenegg said:
The Conflated Outlier said:
P700DEE said:
Ran my 2012 F11 for 200k miles. Only serviced at 20k intervals which was pretty much 10-11 months intervals. My indy advised leaving unless it got noisey. Chains were inspected at 110K miles when the DMF was replaced.
So they removed the cam cover, dropped the sub frame, removed the sump and rear timing case but didn't fit new chains?OK...
I'm another +1 for don't wory too much. Ran a 98 XKR for 18 years (with upgraded tensioners) and now have a 5.0 XK R on 150k miles on orginal tensioner and a G31 525D on 99K miles.
P700DEE said:
rottenegg said:
The Conflated Outlier said:
P700DEE said:
Ran my 2012 F11 for 200k miles. Only serviced at 20k intervals which was pretty much 10-11 months intervals. My indy advised leaving unless it got noisey. Chains were inspected at 110K miles when the DMF was replaced.
So they removed the cam cover, dropped the sub frame, removed the sump and rear timing case but didn't fit new chains?OK...
I'm another +1 for don't wory too much. Ran a 98 XKR for 18 years (with upgraded tensioners) and now have a 5.0 XK R on 150k miles on orginal tensioner and a G31 525D on 99K miles.
His current F31 320D is now on nearly 130k miles - all original chains and guides. Oil changed every 5k miles without fail.
His Dad's F30 320D and F31 330D are on 177k miles and 156k miles respectively; again, all original chains & guides.
They do (well did, his Dad's retired now from Nov last year) huge miles between here in Lancashire & Germany; never any issues bar brakes/tyres and a few interesting stones through the windscreen episodes etc
As said; the only news you hear is the negative stuff. IMO it's best to be ignored as long as you look after and maintain your car properly
d_a_n1979 said:
rottenegg said:
d_a_n1979 said:
The Conflated Outlier said:
The N47 was never fully 'cured' of the chain problems. Plenty of 2013 and 2014 cars with issues. A 2013 520d Touring springs to mind - at 69k it was still quiet but the owner had it replaced anyway. Just as well because it was absolutely fked and the tensioner fully extended.
The B47 arrived in late 2014 in the F10 but some retained the N47 into 2015 such as the 3 and 4 Series. I have a feeling the 518d and maybe 520dED had the N47 into 2015.
You can tell instantly from looking under the bonnet as the B47 has a much smaller engine cover. The B47 isn't perfect but they are so much better than the N47 - why bother with the engine that is known to be a drama?
There is the N47T where they revised a few things IIRC and that got the new tensionerked and the tensioner fully extended. The B47 arrived in late 2014 in the F10 but some retained the N47 into 2015 such as the 3 and 4 Series. I have a feeling the 518d and maybe 520dED had the N47 into 2015.
You can tell instantly from looking under the bonnet as the B47 has a much smaller engine cover. The B47 isn't perfect but they are so much better than the N47 - why bother with the engine that is known to be a drama?
Still not infallible IIRC but plenty of them out there with decent mileage and no issues
Time for a general rant......
The subject of chains is like a stuck record I've heard for decades with Jags, BMWs and VAGs. The level of risk aversion these days it's unbelievable. I bought my 330d knowing exactly what issues it's famous for on the internet, but I know the internet is largely full of carp and just took a risk like you should. There are no guarantees with any car, but a lot of people seem to need a ton of reassurance from strangers before committing themselves, which is just bizarre to me.
It doesn't matter how many times you say "Maintenance is key", another 5000 "Mine was fine up to 355,000 miles" reports are required.
The N47 must be about the most common BMW engine out there. Pretty much every BMW that drives past me is 1, 2, 3 or 5 20d, and there are 100s of 1000s of 20ds driving around perfectly fine. Is that not reassurance enough for people?
If the chains need doing at some point into your ownership, so what, just deal with it. Don't ignore the early signs of rattle and just get it fixed. It's not rocket science.
End of rant.
It's not to do with the turbo from my reading; but then again this is the tinterwebs so don't quote me on that
Agree with what you've said though; the only news you hear re the 20d is the negative news and you get the likes of companies like ADC in Manchester, who are well respected, but they pass out the blurb all the time that these engines must have their chains changed at 100k miles otherwise as soon as you hit 100001, they're gonna go pop...
It's wise for them; they get the business. But a lot of folk take that as gospel and then pass it down the line...
Like you've said; there are so many of these engines out there still running with high miles and little to no issues; but no ones goes off that, they all go off the negative etc
I did go off on a super rant there but at the end of the day, a chain is a wear item, like a cam belt. You cannot escape that maintenance regardless of brand. Cambelts, cambelt driven water pumps & tensioners all wear out like a chain does, so until the whole world goes EV, that maintenance will always be required. And then we move from borked engines writing cars off to borked battery packs writing cars off
The problem is the marketing tactic of no service interval on chains, transmission fluid and diffs, so consumers quite rightly assume these items should last the life of the car. But we all know 'life' means the duration of the warranty.
P700DEE said:
rottenegg said:
The Conflated Outlier said:
P700DEE said:
Ran my 2012 F11 for 200k miles. Only serviced at 20k intervals which was pretty much 10-11 months intervals. My indy advised leaving unless it got noisey. Chains were inspected at 110K miles when the DMF was replaced.
So they removed the cam cover, dropped the sub frame, removed the sump and rear timing case but didn't fit new chains?OK...
I'm another +1 for don't wory too much. Ran a 98 XKR for 18 years (with upgraded tensioners) and now have a 5.0 XK R on 150k miles on orginal tensioner and a G31 525D on 99K miles.
As mentioned previously, the upper tensioner was only revised once, in 2019. The lower tensioner was revised 3 times.
Start/Stop has a lot to do with it. The early tensioners were known to lose pressure, so the constant stop/start in traffic caused a lot of chain slap.
It's why I disabled it. It's better mechanically to keep the engine running. I don't care about the 1 or 2 mpg loss as it's cheaper to not have to replace the chains.
The 6 pots being a more balanced engine don't suffer so much from chain slap. It's more of an issue on 4 pots as there's more jerking on the chain between firing cycles....even more so with the older tensioners that didn't maintain hydraulic pressure when the engine stopped.
It was the same hysteria surrounding Golf R32 chains, which are far longer than the N47/57's, but there are 300,000 mile examples still running around on original chain gear. The secret is nothing more than regular oil changes.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff