What is proof of using a phone while driving?
Discussion
I’m being reported for using a mobile phone while driving as something tagged onto a fictitious assault causing ABH. Is a photo of me taking a photo in my car stationary proof of driving while using a mobile phone. As far as I’m concerned a photo isn’t proof that the engine was running.
Anyone know of anything similar happening?
Anyone know of anything similar happening?
Pica-Pica said:
Whether the engine is running is irrelevant.
Not according to:LivLL said:
There's nothing there that I can see to prohibit phone use if you stop and switch off the engine.You are not then driving.
It specifically states it is illegal when:
"driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving".
If it were illegal to stop, switch off the engine and use the phone, then that stop/start rule above would not be needed.
Any lawyers in?
LivLL said:
Yes I’m aware of the law but what is the test to prove the offence?Pica-Pica said:
Whether the engine is running is irrelevant. The vehicle must be parked. I know someone who was stopped and using a phone, she had the keys in the ignition (this was 10 years ago), she was deemed to be ‘using a mobile phone whilst in control of a vehicle that was not parked’.
Anecdotes are irrelevant to my question and not applicable.pattieG said:
I’m being reported for using a mobile phone while driving as something tagged onto a fictitious assault causing ABH. Is a photo of me taking a photo in my car stationary proof of driving while using a mobile phone. As far as I’m concerned a photo isn’t proof that the engine was running.
Anyone know of anything similar happening?
Care to give us a bit of background?Anyone know of anything similar happening?
pattieG said:
Pica-Pica said:
Whether the engine is running is irrelevant. The vehicle must be parked. I know someone who was stopped and using a phone, she had the keys in the ignition (this was 10 years ago), she was deemed to be ‘using a mobile phone whilst in control of a vehicle that was not parked’.
Anecdotes are irrelevant to my question and not applicable.Dave Finney said:
There's nothing there that I can see to prohibit phone use if you stop and switch off the engine.
You are not then driving.
It specifically states it is illegal when:
"driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving".
If it were illegal to stop, switch off the engine and use the phone, then that stop/start rule above would not be needed.
Any lawyers in?
The government website is not supposed to be a definitive statement of the law - it's very much the Janet and John version.You are not then driving.
It specifically states it is illegal when:
"driving a car that turns off the engine when you stop moving".
If it were illegal to stop, switch off the engine and use the phone, then that stop/start rule above would not be needed.
Any lawyers in?
What's illegal is using a phone while "driving". AFAIK case law doesn't provide any single tick box which determines whether or not you are driving - it's a question of fact and degree for the court to make a judgement on, taking all the circumstances into account.
For example it's generally accepted that you are still driving while stopped at traffic lights or stopped briefly in stationary traffic (as you still have to be alert and ready to move at a moment's notice). Switching the engine off in that situation would not mean that you were suddenly no longer driving.
OTOH if you were pulled up safely at the side of the road in a position where you could remain indefinitely, switching the engine off might mean that you were no longer driving.
pattieG said:
I’m being reported for using a mobile phone while driving as something tagged onto a fictitious assault causing ABH. Is a photo of me taking a photo in my car stationary proof of driving while using a mobile phone. As far as I’m concerned a photo isn’t proof that the engine was running.
Anyone know of anything similar happening?
Presumably whoever took the photo can also give evidence about the circumstances - whether the engine was running, how long you were stopped for etc. What are they likely to say?Anyone know of anything similar happening?
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
Sounds like playing silly games and winning stupid prizes.
pattieG said:
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.
Got your phone out while stopped at traffic lights? I fear you're going to have a hard time defending this one...Aretnap said:
Presumably whoever took the photo can also give evidence about the circumstances - whether the engine was running, how long you were stopped for etc. What are they likely to say?
I wouldn’t say the account of the alleged victim carries any weight. He would happily blame me for the plague if he thought it would cause me issue.ChocolateFrog said:
pattieG said:
normalbloke said:
Care to give us a bit of background?
Honked at a cyclist in the road riding erratically. Cyclist catches up at traffic lights and is abusive. Takes photo of my number plate and self in passenger seat. Claims I drove into him. The police are reporting me for driving whilst using a phone with his picture of me taking a picture of him as evidence.Sounds like playing silly games and winning stupid prizes.
But to the OP - if you want to use your phone to collect evidence, I'd say, get out of the car and take a photo, even if it causes road chaos. The law is angled directly at/against you. Saw a vid the other day with a copper explaining how even touching your phone in the Macdonalds drive through to use your app is "illegal".
Edited by Griffith4ever on Sunday 25th February 19:35
pattieG said:
I’m being reported for using a mobile phone while driving as something tagged onto a fictitious assault causing ABH. Is a photo of me taking a photo in my car stationary proof of driving while using a mobile phone. As far as I’m concerned a photo isn’t proof that the engine was running.
Anyone know of anything similar happening?
Aretnap has already given info with regard to what amounts to driving in law (it doesn't necessarily stop when the vehicle does, it depends on the circumstances).Anyone know of anything similar happening?
If you're being reported & don't agree it will be the court who decides.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 25th February 19:32
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